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HTPC-upgrade advice: AMD Richland A8-7600 or Kaveri A10-6700T ???

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  • HTPC-upgrade advice: AMD Richland A8-7600 or Kaveri A10-6700T ???

    So I want to upgrade my HTPC to a 45 Watt APU to be able to play some more games from the couch (low-end steamboxing ).
    Since the A8-7600 is delayed I thought I could maybe go for the availabel A10-6700T.

    What are your thoughts?

    Note that I will not install catalyst (doesn´t work well with xbmc). So the 6700T would run r600 and the 7600 radeonSI (current stable mesa+kernel).

    Possible Upgrade Specs:
    Code:
    Richland 32 nm A8-7600  	3,1 (3,3) GHz 	2 × 2 MB 	384 GCNcores    654 (720) MHz    45 W  TurboCore3	FM2+   DDR3-2133 MHz
    Kaveri   28 nm A10-6700T 	2,5 (3,5) GHz 	2 × 2 MB 	384 VLIW4cores	720 (N/A) MHz  	 45 W  TurboCore3 	FM2    DDR3-1866 MHz
    Given:
    - very flat / small case so a dGPU or >45 W is out of the question
    - 120 W power supply
    - very silent and it should stay this way
    - AMD E-350 (Zacate)
    - 2x2 GB 1333 RAM
    - 128 GB SSD + 3TB
    - openSUSE tumbleweed

    thx, tomme

  • #2
    Given the current state of drivers, I would recommend the Richland for r600g. The hw perf difference is about a dozen %, but with current drivers you'll likely get better perf from the Richland, not to mention the driver quality.

    HSA apps may appear in the future, but I doubt it gets any major adoption in the next few years.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by curaga View Post
      Given the current state of drivers, I would recommend the Richland for r600g. The hw perf difference is about a dozen %, but with current drivers you'll likely get better perf from the Richland, not to mention the driver quality.

      HSA apps may appear in the future, but I doubt it gets any major adoption in the next few years.
      Thx for the input
      I read now somewhere that the richland 6700T only supports DDR3 1600 mhz. That would be huge, wouldn´t it? Since the kaveri 7600 shall work with ddr3 2400 mhz. Can anyone confirm this?
      And for r600 - are the more optimizations planned?
      otherwise radeonsi might have the same level / quality in 6 months or so - correct?

      Comment


      • #4
        http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldo...A10-6700T.html

        Cpu-world says 1866MHz, but you might want to check AMD's site. There isn't anything planned for r600g as far as I know, and theoretically radeonsi could match it in six months, yes.

        However, people also said that six months ago, and before that. If you recall, HD8000 was the first gen where launch-time open-source support was promised - it didn't exactly turn out that way, and the drivers only became stable/usable a year after launch. I'm pessimistic on that, and would not rely on it matching six months from now.

        Comment


        • #5
          The 7850K is probably your best bet
          You can undervolt and underclock a bit and it still retains almost all performance.
          You should upgrade the ram though no matter what APU you go with.
          Last edited by grndzro; 04-24-2014, 03:01 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            A10-6700T can burn 80 watts gaming.
            Not sure your old 120W PSU will be up to the task.
            You can get a decent higher wattage power supply fairly cheap.

            No idea what your budget is but upgrading into a 120W psu with the intention of gaming dosen't sound like a good idea. Especially when your ram will be a serious bottleneck for an APU.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by curaga View Post
              http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldo...A10-6700T.html

              Cpu-world says 1866MHz, but you might want to check AMD's site. There isn't anything planned for r600g as far as I know, and theoretically radeonsi could match it in six months, yes.

              However, people also said that six months ago, and before that. If you recall, HD8000 was the first gen where launch-time open-source support was promised - it didn't exactly turn out that way, and the drivers only became stable/usable a year after launch. I'm pessimistic on that, and would not rely on it matching six months from now.
              thanks again

              those two and many other sites state 2133 mhz... sigh
              http://www.pcgameshardware.de/A10-6700T-CPU-258000/
              http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php...-gelistet.html

              however AMD says 1866 here:
              http://www.amd.com/de-de/products/pr.../a-series-apu#
              http://products.amd.com/en-gb/Deskto...&f4=4&f5=&f6=&

              is this maybe up to the mainboard?
              the kaveris also state only 2133 while I definitely saw tests with 2400
              http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag..._2400mhz&num=1

              ...

              after a long search I found at least a 6800k test on memory scalling
              http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...land,3593.html

              this states that 2400 mhz was mostly unstable for richland. so 2133 is the deal, but this is officially supported by the 6800k.
              however the kaveri 7600 was tested succesfully with 2400 mhz:
              http://semiaccurate.com/2014/01/15/e...h-amds-kaveri/


              Three questions remaining:
              - If I would find 2133 ram similar priced to a 1866 ram with same timings I could at least try this with a supporting mainboard + 6700T?
              - And when it does not work out I would just run the 2133 at 1866 mhz and go for optimizing the timings? (the I would think: I should have waited for 7600 kaveri)
              - I would go for FM2+ and not for FM2 mainboard?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                The 7850K is probably your best bet
                You can undervolt and underclock a bit and it still retains almost all performance.
                You should upgrade the ram though no matter what APU you go with.
                I cannot go above 45W with my given case and PSU.
                7850k was somewhere tested undervolted/clocked by a bios setting for 45W TDP. However it was then much slower than the 7600 (I believe cpu ran at 2,5 Ghz, gpu I do not remember).
                Yes, I think the RAM will be upgraded, despite the tight budget.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                  A10-6700T can burn 80 watts gaming.
                  Not sure your old 120W PSU will be up to the task.
                  You can get a decent higher wattage power supply fairly cheap.

                  No idea what your budget is but upgrading into a 120W psu with the intention of gaming dosen't sound like a good idea. Especially when your ram will be a serious bottleneck for an APU.
                  thanks for the hint!!!
                  can you give a refference for this?
                  is 80 watts common or just a seldom peak in furmark, prime95 or battlefield (stuff I would not run).
                  in this case I maybe should upgrade to the new 28nm kabini athlon, as it is so cheap, while at the same time keeping the old RAM.
                  I definitely will not go for a new PSU and/or case. 120 W are the limit.
                  This will be a machine for LIGHT gaming (humble bundle stuff at 1080p and 30 fps) and XBMC movie time
                  Last edited by tomtomme; 04-24-2014, 03:53 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                    A10-6700T can burn 80 watts gaming.
                    Not sure your old 120W PSU will be up to the task.
                    You can get a decent higher wattage power supply fairly cheap.

                    No idea what your budget is but upgrading into a 120W psu with the intention of gaming dosen't sound like a good idea. Especially when your ram will be a serious bottleneck for an APU.
                    a quick search yielded that you maybe meant 80 watts for the entire system.
                    at least this says 76 watts for the system running tomb raider
                    http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Process...nd-Conclusions

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tomtomme View Post
                      a quick search yielded that you maybe meant 80 watts for the entire system.
                      at least this says 76 watts for the system running tomb raider
                      http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Process...nd-Conclusions
                      80 is on the low side
                      http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...i,3725-15.html

                      What case you got. It might do better than you think.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                        80 is on the low side
                        http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...i,3725-15.html

                        What case you got. It might do better than you think.
                        there is no 6700T measured there...
                        only the 7600 at 45 TDP and that is way below 80 Watts for the whole system all the time.

                        I have this case:
                        http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=84&area=

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          through a riser card a very slim dGPU would fit in, but I cannot think of a cpu+gpu-combination that is safe within the limit of 120watt for 250-270 € (6700t, 2x4gb ram, miniITXmobo)

                          A GeForce GTX 750 just doesn´t fit in and even a GT 630 still burns 50 W + maybe a 35 W haswell corei3 = already at almost double the TDP = not safe with 120w PSU.

                          The only dGPU option might be th 30W TDP R7 240 with GDDR5 Ram, but it has only 320 stream processors.... so even less than the 7600 kaveri running at same mhz...
                          and combined with a 35W TDP CPU this is still 65W TDP ...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tomtomme View Post
                            there is no 6700T measured there...
                            only the 7600 at 45 TDP and that is way below 80 Watts for the whole system all the time.

                            I have this case:
                            http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=84&area=
                            My bad I messed that whole thing up.
                            Seems system power came to 75 watts
                            http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Process...nd-Conclusions

                            Great low profile heat sink can cool 125W easy and inexpensive
                            http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835119153
                            Review
                            http://www.frostytech.com/articlevie...articleID=2587

                            If you are comfortable with soldering you might be able to pick up an inexpensive open frame 150W power supply that would work in the case.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tomtomme View Post
                              I just looked up the case specs, great looking case BTW, states max cpu cooler height is 37mm. That doesn't give much room at all, in fact it might rule out all AM2/2+ cpus. I'd look toward kabini or an AM1 system.

                              Evan

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