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  • #71
    Originally posted by entropy View Post
    I wonder what the long-term effect is if a game is shipped using the Mantle API only.
    With OpenGL there's a good chance that you can run those games in, say, 10 years.
    I'm not sure this is the case with Mantle...

    As I see it, this low-level stuff shares the pros and cons of consoles:
    A thin, high-performing layer to the hardware but therefore missing the abstraction
    which allows easy backward compatibility, e.g. you cannot play your PS3 games on a PS4.

    Do we really want that on the PC for the sake of a few more FPS/effects?
    The GPU is largely irrelevant to previous console generation compatibility.

    The reason theres no PS3 support on the PS4 is that there is no way to emulate the Cell CPU fast enough inside of the price and thermal envelope of the PS4. Furthermore theres no market for the low end Cell hardware thus there aren't any low power variants out there to have dedicated hardware for it like was the case with PS2 compatibility in early PS3s.

    Now though, the PS4 should have more then enough grunt to allow emulation of PSOne and PS2 games purely in software just as the Wii does for old Nintendo consoles.

    Likewise the XBone should easily be able to run original XBawks games by Microsoft just adding the proper libs to the XBone OS, both consoles are x86 based https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_t...specifications But for the same reasons as the PS4 cannot play 360 games.

    Reviving old game libraries would be a cash cow for both companies just as it is for Steam, Desura, GOG.com etc. Of course both companies will almost assuredly require that you have to buy those games again instead of letting you dust off your discs.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by DanL View Post
      XvBA was the Linux equivalent of DirectX Video Acceleration, and it's technically cross-platform, but it took years for AMD to release the SDK and for a program (XBMC) to actually use it. Mantle could be just as "cross-platform" as XvBA...
      XvBA was a minor feature and was held up by legal for years, because it's the MPAA and RIAA that are the ones that hold up stuff like that as they don't want you to possibly have yet another way to breach their DRM crap like HDCP and CSS.

      Nvidia got around it by tying VDPAU to their blob driver, only releasing docs on how to allow OSS video players to make calls to the blob driver, not the hardware directly.
      Last edited by Kivada; 09-29-2013, 07:21 PM.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by Kivada View Post
        The reason theres no PS3 support on the PS4 is that there is no way to emulate the Cell CPU fast enough inside of the price and thermal envelope of the PS4.
        And maybe because the PS4 CPU has a complete different architecture/instruction set than the PS3 CPU.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by Asariati View Post
          And maybe because the PS4 CPU has a complete different architecture/instruction set than the PS3 CPU.
          I already said that... Read more, post less...

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          • #75
            Originally posted by Kivada View Post
            I already said that... Read more, post less...
            You were talking about the Cell SPE, not the PowerPC CPU. I was adding the latter. Or what part is mentioning the PowerPC CPU here:

            The reason theres no PS3 support on the PS4 is that there is no way to emulate the Cell CPU fast enough inside of the price and thermal envelope of the PS4. Furthermore theres no market for the low end Cell hardware thus there aren't any low power variants out there to have dedicated hardware for it like was the case with PS2 compatibility in early PS3s.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by Asariati View Post
              You were talking about the Cell SPE, not the PowerPC CPU. I was adding the latter. Or what part is mentioning the PowerPC CPU here:
              Cell is a microprocessor microarchitecture of an Accelerated processing unit that combines a general-purpose Power Architecture core of modest performance with streamlined coprocessing elements
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_CPU
              The PowerPC core is part of the Cell CPU, so it doesn't have to be mentioned explicitly.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                Originally posted by johnc View Post
                I guess we'll learn more at the AMD Dev conference in Nov. Or... maybe we won't.
                I'm going with "you will".
                One thing that won't be published in November is the SDK. That would probably mean no Mantle in the open source driver either:
                Originally posted by http://vr-zone.com/articles/mantling-alliances-ritchie-corpus-amd-interview/58215.html
                VRZ: Any timeline to Mantle’s SDK being made public?

                It could be as early as sometime next year or maybe the year after.

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                • #78
                  2015 for public SDK? AMD are you nuts? Clearly you don't want any non-EA entity to support it.

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                  • #79
                    @curaga
                    Various news outlets report that EA/DICE have a timed exclusive on Mantle announcements until the AMD APU13 conference. It is expected that more developers will announce Mantle support for their middleware during the conference or shortly afterwards. But still no Mantle SDK for you unless you are special friends with AMD.

                    @dk2x
                    The statement by Raja Koduri is possibly referring to the Mantle-like OpenGL extensions which were hinted at by Graham Sellers, AMD Senior Manager of Software Development last month:
                    Originally posted by Graham Sellers
                    My mission is to expose GPU as #OpenGL extensions. If you can't get close to theoretical peak, perf., I failed.
                    Source: https://twitter.com/grahamsellers/st...75222469206016

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by curaga View Post
                      2015 for public SDK? AMD are you nuts? Clearly you don't want any non-EA entity to support it.
                      It's been speculated that Mantle is just the XBox One API on PCs. If that's the case, then making it officially public in 2015 won't really matter for anyone AMD cares about. (Since they are already working on console games anyway)

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