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  • #46
    Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
    driconf is a gui for .. you know what i'm not even going to bother if you need a gui to do things then you shouldn't be using gnu/linux
    Sorry, it's very annoying to read such posts .. Even Linus prefers distros who offer some "easiness". And personally, having used driconf, it didn't seem to offer much, oh well, might just be me.
    Personally it's not like I don't know where the config files are, how they work or even how to recover from some disaster, I'd just rather not mess with all that. WHEN the terminal is more convenient, I use that, WHEN a gui is, I use that. If you want to talk about freedom, let the users be free to choose their way of doing things, or shut it.
    If you think you shouldn't use a gui, might as well use gentoo, or better BSD.

    Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
    fuck the blobs though - if you're happy to use a closed blob then you may aswell use windows where games are plentiful
    Again, this black and white view .. Like someone saying if you're not a communist you're a nazi. If you're not a saint you're a killer. You'd agree I guess?
    I bet your system is not "100% percent free", or will you tell me you have no proprietary driver, firmware etc among other things running? It might be for something on the motherboard, or for ethernet/wifi. Or even firmware for radeon to run. Might as well use windows, you're not with the FOSS people by that logic ..

    So PLEASE, just accept your fellow Linux users and the choices they make.
    Freedom --> Choices
    If you want to talk about freedom respect other's choices.
    Either provide help, or don't talk. At least regarding such things. And yes, for many people using the "free" drivers means giving up MUCH of the functionality of their hardware. Is that freedom? Or is it freedom to severely limit your hardware choices.
    I'm not telling anyone to like the blobs or use them, Neither to not use the free drivers. Use what you like and works for you. And don't bash or mock in any way the others who made a different choice. That goes for both blob and free driver users though.(although let's face it, the latter kinda do it a "bit" more .. )
    Is there's ANY choice that is 100% in the end? No .. Does that mean you should use Windows? Actually it means you should rip some of your hardware out of the pc by that logic, since it's not open .. :P
    Sorry, the second post I quoted .. That's BS ..

    Btw, should I say again that "free" driver development often relies more or less on the blobs?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
      Sorry, it's very annoying to read such posts .. Even Linus prefers distros who offer some "easiness". And personally, having used driconf, it didn't seem to offer much, oh well, might just be me.
      Personally it's not like I don't know where the config files are, how they work or even how to recover from some disaster, I'd just rather not mess with all that. WHEN the terminal is more convenient, I use that, WHEN a gui is, I use that. If you want to talk about freedom, let the users be free to choose their way of doing things, or shut it.
      If you think you shouldn't use a gui, might as well use gentoo, or better BSD.



      Again, this black and white view .. Like someone saying if you're not a communist you're a nazi. If you're not a saint you're a killer. You'd agree I guess?
      I bet your system is not "100% percent free", or will you tell me you have no proprietary driver, firmware etc among other things running? It might be for something on the motherboard, or for ethernet/wifi. Or even firmware for radeon to run. Might as well use windows, you're not with the FOSS people by that logic ..

      So PLEASE, just accept your fellow Linux users and the choices they make.
      Freedom --> Choices
      If you want to talk about freedom respect other's choices.
      Either provide help, or don't talk. At least regarding such things. And yes, for many people using the "free" drivers means giving up MUCH of the functionality of their hardware. Is that freedom? Or is it freedom to severely limit your hardware choices.
      I'm not telling anyone to like the blobs or use them, Neither to not use the free drivers. Use what you like and works for you. And don't bash or mock in any way the others who made a different choice. That goes for both blob and free driver users though.(although let's face it, the latter kinda do it a "bit" more .. )
      Is there's ANY choice that is 100% in the end? No .. Does that mean you should use Windows? Actually it means you should rip some of your hardware out of the pc by that logic, since it's not open .. :P
      Sorry, the second post I quoted .. That's BS ..

      Btw, should I say again that "free" driver development often relies more or less on the blobs?
      so by your logic freedom lovers should accept people that choose to be in jail?

      i do use gentoo but i wouldnt use BSD because the GPL is a much better licence

      and why would you use a free(dom) operating system with a non-free component - this is just fucking stupid

      you sir are a bell end and you should do some research

      start by watching this http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...85592627775409 ( sorry its not in cartoon format and uses big words )and stop pretending that you're the leading authority on free software

      and yes all my systems use 100% free software ( to the best of my knowlege! )

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
        ......
        Oh, the ironies already started ..

        Ok, maybe you've removed the closed binaries from your kernel.

        Thanks for the suggestion, I've already seen it. Please tell what exactly you think I should research more. I accept I might have false/inadequate knowledge on anything, no-one knows everything. I'd gladly improve my knowledge.

        "stop pretending that you're the leading authority on free software"<--what?

        "so by your logic freedom lovers should accept people that choose to be in jail?"
        By my logic, Linux users should not bash(more or less) other Linux users cause they chose to run any kind of proprietary software. Especially when it's needed for them.
        And by my logic any freedom you have is very relative. You talk as if everything is black and white, but then tell me this. That's what I'm calling black and white logic, lol..
        So you'd say some who uses a closed driver/firmware or anything is in jail? In what are they if they can't use their pc? Or can't choose much of the available hardware? And what is your problem that someone else chose to use use more free software, but aren't (yet?) using 100% free software? You tell them they better use 100% closed or 100% free. You sure you want to stick with that?

        And as a "bonus" .. Let's say you found out you need a binary driver to connect to the internet. And there's no open one for your hardware. Guess you'd go change hardware? What if it cost a lot?
        What if your other options made your internet slow as heck?
        For many people it's like that.

        [In any case we go on a lot, we could as well pm each other, so the thread is not derailed.. Eerr, not too much that is.]

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by sonnet View Post
          Phoronix reviews are starting to look completely unreliable to me.

          In this review (7950 vs gtx 680)
          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...0_gtx680&num=5

          The 7950 , which is far inferior in Windows to the gtx 680, was performing equally to the gtx 680 on linux.
          This suggested that fglrx were faster than nvidia drivers on linux.

          Now we get 2 reviews, comparing AMD and Nvidia drivers on linux and Windows, and it appears (and quite noticeably ) the opposite: that Nvidia drivers are better.
          No one is puzzled by the controversial Phoronix review, which within a few months of distance give 2 opposite results?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by sonnet View Post
            No one is puzzled by the controversial Phoronix review, which within a few months of distance give 2 opposite results?
            Maybe NVIDIA has optimized their drivers more from then, since 680 was relatively new(few months old though....).
            Or Micheal did mess up the results in some way, but I'd go with NVIDIA not having optimized their drivers enough back then.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
              Oh, the ironies already started ..

              Ok, maybe you've removed the closed binaries from your kernel.

              Thanks for the suggestion, I've already seen it. Please tell what exactly you think I should research more. I accept I might have false/inadequate knowledge on anything, no-one knows everything. I'd gladly improve my knowledge.

              "stop pretending that you're the leading authority on free software"<--what?

              "so by your logic freedom lovers should accept people that choose to be in jail?"
              By my logic, Linux users should not bash(more or less) other Linux users cause they chose to run any kind of proprietary software. Especially when it's needed for them.
              And by my logic any freedom you have is very relative. You talk as if everything is black and white, but then tell me this. That's what I'm calling black and white logic, lol..
              So you'd say some who uses a closed driver/firmware or anything is in jail? In what are they if they can't use their pc? Or can't choose much of the available hardware? And what is your problem that someone else chose to use use more free software, but aren't (yet?) using 100% free software? You tell them they better use 100% closed or 100% free. You sure you want to stick with that?

              And as a "bonus" .. Let's say you found out you need a binary driver to connect to the internet. And there's no open one for your hardware. Guess you'd go change hardware? What if it cost a lot?
              What if your other options made your internet slow as heck?
              For many people it's like that.

              [In any case we go on a lot, we could as well pm each other, so the thread is not derailed.. Eerr, not too much that is.]
              You can put whatever you like on YOUR system because it is YOUR system it still doesn't mean what you choose to put on YOUR system is sane

              When I buy a system or components I bear in mind what i'm going to be running on it so I never have an issue with closed drivers , I would never accept non-free drivers on my system but thats MY system - you can run whatever you like on YOUR system but be aware that people will point and laugh if your choices are stupid

              EDIT: My point is that if you choose a free operating system why would you choose a non-free component? why not choose a complete non-free system? if you have no moral objections to using a non-free system why choose a free system? when you have two completely different and opposing methods of development with incompatible licences how can you expect things to work smoothly?
              Last edited by D0pamine; 10-21-2012, 09:51 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
                You can put whatever you like on YOUR system because it is YOUR system it still doesn't mean what you choose to put on YOUR system is sane

                When I buy a system or components I bear in mind what i'm going to be running on it so I never have an issue with closed drivers , I would never accept non-free drivers on my system but thats MY system - you can run whatever you like on YOUR system but be aware that people will point and laugh if your choices are stupid
                Ok, choosing only hardware that's known to work well with free drivers(can you say on par with closed though?). See what you're left with.
                Then add a coreboot motherboard of course .. You don't want to leave your BIOS closed. See how much is left now ..
                Yeap, all certainly sane choices for all uses and modern hardware.

                Keep laughing at the other Linux users, it will certainly help them and the community.
                Talk about freedom, then laugh about other's choices, nice!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
                  Ok, choosing only hardware that's known to work well with free drivers(can you say on par with closed though?). See what you're left with.
                  Then add a coreboot motherboard of course .. You don't want to leave your BIOS closed. See how much is left now ..
                  Yeap, all certainly sane choices for all uses and modern hardware.

                  Keep laughing at the other Linux users, it will certainly help them and the community.
                  Talk about freedom, then laugh about other's choices, nice!
                  with the exception of the radeon card yes everything i have runs better with free drivers ( the radeon driver is definitely more compliant than fglrx though and provides around 70%-80% of the performance so i'm happy with that )

                  if there was a free(dom) alternative to using a closed bios i would certainly use it

                  and yeh i'll keep laughing at the 'linux' users because for the most part these are dual booting morons who have discovered an ubuntu iso as they blindly fail their way around the interweb with internet explorer

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
                    ........

                    Yeah, especially people who don't want to waste hours messing with config files etc and terawatts of electricity compiling stuff, like some Ubuntu users, are morons.
                    Not that you can't do that on Ubuntu just fine if you so wish, it's just you're not forced(but when you're not forced to do such things you're not free according to some other people too ..! )

                    Who knows .. There may be an alternative to closed source BIOS .. Granted I mentioned which it is in my post, but I bet people who want to go around calling others morons would know better.

                    Don't forget to mention the other features radeon offers, like baking bread on your laptop.
                    Ok, I admit I'm wrong here, people have reported their laptop running cool with radeon .. at 65-70 degrees only ..

                    Guess what, you're just in a slightly bigger jail(as you called it) than those "morons". Maybe even bigger not actually. Or is your hardware open too?
                    And it's you who is the moron if you think you're any better in some way actually.

                    And apparently you feel some kind of supremacy cause you're "free" unlike the rest. I guess you wouldn't even want them to use free software cause you'd lose that. That's why you advocate that if you want gui you shouldn't use Linux. That's why people ditch opensource .. And why Linux is still behind in some areas and it angers me ..
                    The ones where there is progress are the ones where this attitude is missing. Apparently it's not random. Heck even the software is more open in those. But some are too blind.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
                      Yeah, especially people who don't want to waste hours messing with config files etc and terawatts of electricity compiling stuff, like some Ubuntu users, are morons.
                      Not that you can't do that on Ubuntu just fine if you so wish, it's just you're not forced(but when you're not forced to do such things you're not free according to some other people too ..! )

                      Who knows .. There may be an alternative to closed source BIOS .. Granted I mentioned which it is in my post, but I bet people who want to go around calling others morons would know better.

                      Don't forget to mention the other features radeon offers, like baking bread on your laptop.
                      Ok, I admit I'm wrong here, people have reported their laptop running cool with radeon .. at 65-70 degrees only ..

                      Guess what, you're just in a slightly bigger jail(as you called it) than those "morons". Maybe even bigger not actually. Or is your hardware open too?
                      And it's you who is the moron if you think you're any better in some way actually.

                      And apparently you feel some kind of supremacy cause you're "free" unlike the rest. I guess you wouldn't even want them to use free software cause you'd lose that. That's why you advocate that if you want gui you shouldn't use Linux. That's why people ditch opensource .. And why Linux is still behind in some areas and it angers me ..
                      The ones where there is progress are the ones where this attitude is missing. Apparently it's not random. Heck even the software is more open in those. But some are too blind.
                      corrupting a free system is moronic ... nuff said

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
                        My point is that if you choose a free operating system why would you choose a non-free component? why not choose a complete non-free system?
                        Practicality.

                        The open drivers are not near as fast as the closed source ones today, especially on AMD hardware. I hope, as much as the next open-source enthusiast, that this changes in the near future, however it's simply not the case today. In fact, there are other problems with the open-drivers on my AMD systems beyond performance, but that's besides the point.

                        Ultimately, overly-zealous declarations only serve to alienate people like me, who want to support Linux and open-source software as much as possible, but also need the best quality I can get for Blender and OpenGL support. At the end of the day, people will use what works best, and if open-source development isn't producing better result, the average user will always stick to propitiatory software, they won't "jailed" by this fact, quite the opposite, better software is liberating (to the end user). I strongly believe that Open Source is better, and that open solutions will eventually out-match all closed ones. However, I also understand that individuals situations aren't always so cut-n-dry, and supporting the systems we believe in means we need to work together as much as possible.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          AMD blob isn't the best for me, for example when I try to watch a movie with xv output, the movie run soo slow, lag on smooth frames etrc, when I try to use gl output I receive tearing, when I try to use xvba , I receive tearing, when I try to use xbmc, I receive some artefacts on the menu....

                          I have a redeon 4650 mobility, and I prefer radeon driver, good xv and gl support, and run well all the games that I try, the only game that doesn't run is Oil Rush.

                          My laptot have a temperature of 65 degrees with the high setting.
                          Last edited by pandev92; 10-22-2012, 05:28 AM.

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                          • #58
                            d0pamine is going to probably be one of the first people to beg valve for steam beta access.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by F i L View Post
                              Practicality.

                              The open drivers are not near as fast as the closed source ones today, especially on AMD hardware. I hope, as much as the next open-source enthusiast, that this changes in the near future, however it's simply not the case today. In fact, there are other problems with the open-drivers on my AMD systems beyond performance, but that's besides the point.

                              Ultimately, overly-zealous declarations only serve to alienate people like me, who want to support Linux and open-source software as much as possible, but also need the best quality I can get for Blender and OpenGL support. At the end of the day, people will use what works best, and if open-source development isn't producing better result, the average user will always stick to propitiatory software, they won't "jailed" by this fact, quite the opposite, better software is liberating (to the end user). I strongly believe that Open Source is better, and that open solutions will eventually out-match all closed ones. However, I also understand that individuals situations aren't always so cut-n-dry, and supporting the systems we believe in means we need to work together as much as possible.
                              if you want to support 'open sourced' and 'linux' then use the open gpu drivers. If its not good enough for you - make a bug report or attempt to make it better yourself

                              If you want to support 'open sourced' and 'linux' then use the open drivers - using the closed blobs will not improve anything ....
                              Last edited by D0pamine; 10-22-2012, 08:31 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                                d0pamine is going to probably be one of the first people to beg valve for steam beta access.

                                at the moment i'm playing a lot of foobillard against my neighbour as we're both snooker loopy but too poor to buy a 12 foot table

                                if there are any games available on steam that tickle my fancy i may be tempted but just more first person shooters... they'd have to be pretty special for me to make the mental effort :P

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