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  • #46
    Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post
    How could I file a bug report?
    You may boot into recovery mode or use LiveCD to get access to logs. There is also /usr/share/fglrx/atigetsysteminfo.sh utility that may help gather all needed information next time.
    Without logs there is no one reason to blame fglrx devs, because problem may be just not in fglrx.

    Comment


    • #47
      What are you babbling about?

      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
      You may boot into recovery mode or use LiveCD to get access to logs. There is also /usr/share/fglrx/atigetsysteminfo.sh utility that may help gather all needed information next time.
      Without logs there is no one reason to blame fglrx devs, because problem may be just not in fglrx.
      Why would I boot off a CD? The machine booted fine just the video driver was gone. I can run Linux without X Window. But like you say, because problem may be just not in fglrx, anything is possible. Just many things are highly unlikely.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post
        Why would I boot off a CD? The machine booted fine just the video driver was gone. I can run Linux without X Window. But like you say, because problem may be just not in fglrx, anything is possible. Just many things are highly unlikely.
        Booting off a liveCD is to give access to an environment that is easier for the less than adept average user.


        Anyways, can you please provide some system information? This should help with figuring out how to get a proper bug report to the right party. I have never had a system suddenly have the video driver disappear. I belive the appropriate cause is when there was a system update, and the driver package failed to install.

        Anyways, a good solution is to try the following steps:
        1. Check to see if the radeon driver ( open source) or fglrx ( closed source) driver is loaded.
        2. create a backup of "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" and then erase this file
        3. Now it's time to reconfigure the driver.
          • If the open source driver is loaded: Most distributions should autoconfigure the xserver now. However, if this is not the case, look into the distributions documentation on reconfiguring the xserver.
          • If fglrx is loaded, simply rerun the following command as root: "aticonfig --initial -f"
          • if neither driver is loaded, and the video card is an ati/amd card. The best solution is to reconfigure the Xserver to use vesa drivers, and proceed to reinstall the closed source drivers after verifying that the kernel is supported.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by sloggerKhan View Post
          In general, though, the card is fine. I think people act like the fglrx driver is worse than it is. Really I've got 4 mostly minor problems and 2 of them are not with the card, but actually bugs in other software, I think.
          for that CPU 100% at turned off monitor are two workarounds. first force Vsync in catalyst constrol center. second is force full screen redraw in compiz config manager. there is some quirk in vsync when it begin redraw thousand times per second which generate 100%.

          XvBA works fine for me with PPA XMBC and 2D version of unity. there are some issue when you use XBMC and compiz. there is one utility to control fan and clock speed on this forum. EDIT http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...ocking-Utility
          Last edited by AnonymousCoward; 06-29-2012, 07:45 AM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Let me see here

            Originally posted by Dandel View Post
            Booting off a liveCD is to give access to an environment that is easier for the less than adept average user.


            Anyways, can you please provide some system information? This should help with figuring out how to get a proper bug report to the right party. I have never had a system suddenly have the video driver disappear. I belive the appropriate cause is when there was a system update, and the driver package failed to install.

            Anyways, a good solution is to try the following steps:
            1. Check to see if the radeon driver ( open source) or fglrx ( closed source) driver is loaded.
            2. create a backup of "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" and then erase this file
            3. Now it's time to reconfigure the driver.
              • If the open source driver is loaded: Most distributions should autoconfigure the xserver now. However, if this is not the case, look into the distributions documentation on reconfiguring the xserver.
              • If fglrx is loaded, simply rerun the following command as root: "aticonfig --initial -f"
              • if neither driver is loaded, and the video card is an ati/amd card. The best solution is to reconfigure the Xserver to use vesa drivers, and proceed to reinstall the closed source drivers after verifying that the kernel is supported.
            Perhaps you missed the part where I said it worked once? There was no system update that could have affected it either. I was already running a custom kernel that my distribution could not touch. I needed it for other hardware to function on that machine. When it worked I benchmarked it and the ATI card wasn't any better than what that system has on board. So when I ran that PC again and the binary driver didn't even load what was my incentive to fix it at that point? The fix for me was to pull the card. Problem solved.

            The easiest method that yields the best results is always the correct thing to do. That is a universal truth.

            I don't have a lot of experience with ATI, but what I do I have to put into the negative category. I've used Nvidia on Linux ever since I got my first MX200 board. It hasn't all been rosy either, but then again Nvidia never promised me a rose garden. Nvidia has just delivered consistently. To me consistency is everything when it comes to computers, or I'd run Windows!

            Which the magical disappearing ATI driver was starting to make me feel like I was doing. It had to go.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Veto View Post
              What is it exactly about this driver, that is tiresome?? Does it work or not? It seems people have some old experiences and says its bad all the time. Let us get the facts instead of all that hand waving!

              Personally I currently own a 8600 GT and the Nvidia driver (295.40) in Ubuntu 12.04 has some troubles with making X.org consume 100% CPU and freezing when playing Minecraft. It doesn't play nice with RandR (multimonitor setup). Some tweaks need to be made to xorg.conf to make the Limbo game work in a dual monitor setup. Otherwise it works OK for me. There you have it - that was not so hard...
              It crawls with bugs. I try it out for shits and giggles every year or so and everytime I did something didn't work. The list goes from crashes in 3D or video acceleration, over visual corruption on the desktops and in 3D, to the hangs on suspend / wakeup I take for granted by now. It likes to die if you switch from X to console and back too often. The most interesting problem I once had that it took literally minutes to load and display a large 3D model with lots of polygons that the OSS driver would display instantly.
              Of course the newest kernels and X servers are usually unsupported.

              It's literally lightyears from the nvidia blob in features, performance and stability.

              In short, if you use linux, don't do such a terrible thing to yourself as to buy an AMD gfx card. I see the arguments, and they do make sense, but it's cold comfort if you have to install windows to get the computer to work.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Enverex View Post
                Have you ever even used Linux? I have a feeling you're just trolling.

                OP, I'm in the same boat as you. I have a GT430 in my HTPC at the moment and it works perfectly, but I need a little more power.

                Around the 80 price range ($90 I guess) you have the GeForce GT640 2GB DDR3 and the RadeonHD 7750 1GB GDDR5. Now what sucks here is that the ATi card (using Windows benchmarks as an reference) performs better than the GT640 normally, has a lower TDP (important for quiet / HTPCs) and costs less!

                But then the problem becomes that ATi card support under Linux isn't always great. For example native apps are generally ok, but quite a few games under Wine will simply not work (apparently this is due to the drivers still missing a lot of features that Wine needs to work properly). Also I'm not sure how under-par the raw performance of the Catalyst drivers is, compared to Windows giving their previous track record (where as nVidia's is generally fine).

                So in summary: the 7750 is an all-round better card than the GT640, but may end up being worse / useless due to the drivers (depending on the usage). Pretty rubbish situation really.
                This is where improving the driver by figuring out what to do helps. Personally I believe it would be best to find good tests to figure out what is happening.

                Anyways, I think that it's more important to actually verify that the OpenGL/OpenGL ES/ OpenCL/etc drivers are doing exactly what they are supposed to. Currently, The best test tool available publicly is provided as a regression test suite for mesa. I think this might be the absolute best choice for verifying that things work since this is non-biased and generally sees a lot of work by vmware employed developers along with intel developers. [1]

                Anyways, I did see at least one person testing the latest AMD Drivers against this just to see what would happen. [2][3] Anyways, There is some critical bugs for AMD that are revealed by the bug testing.

                Originally posted by Enverex View Post
                EDIT: To add to this, which I forgot earlier, is that the Catalyst drivers are also normally lagging behind XOrg and Kernel updates, sometimes by several months, so if you're running an up-to-date distro, you may find that either you can't update your Kernel or XOrg for some time due a Catalyst incompatibility, or that you'll update them and suddenly find the driver doesn't work anymore. This has been my biggest annoyance on my ATi/AMD graphics hardware.
                Recently some changes happened to xorg that are aimed at improving this situation. Once Xorg has a reasonably stable driver API I think this will improve. Anyways, I personally wish that the OpenGL drivers and X11 drivers would stop fighting. I do not like it that one cannot easily have a single test system setup where they can easily switch between AMD and Nvidia, and then the Closed and Open Source drivers without having to reboot every time ( or having a hard time changing settings ). I personally know that this can easily be done on windows, and should be allowed on windows also.

                [1] Freedesktop.org - piglit OpenGL test suite
                [2] AMD Developer Gurus - Catalyst driver fails on piglit Opengl tests
                [3] Unofficial AMD Bugzilla - FGLRX Fails and Crashes when running Piglet Open Source test Suite

                Comment


                • #53
                  Hey newbie

                  Originally posted by asdx
                  Yes I have been using Linux for more than 10 years and probably longer than most people in this forum. And no, I'm not trolling.

                  I'm simply not going to encourage people to get Nvidia when they are hostile to the Linux. Sure, the 3D support in the blob is faster than anything else but then so what? Intel and AMD will get there and they are supporting open source, it's just a matter of time.

                  In any case, if you get Nvidia then use/support Nouveau.

                  Why is it so hard for people to do the right thing? Why keep supporting those who are hostile to us and not those who are supporting us already?
                  I've been running Linux for almost twice as long as you have. Maybe you'll get there with it someday?

                  First off Nvidia is not hostile to Linux. They've supplied drivers for their hardware for longer than you've run Linux. Which whether you want to acknowledge it or not is a lot of effort. Effort I appreciate. I also understand that Nvidia is constrained from doing everything you might like them to do. Things like offering all of their technology on terms you want. That's life.

                  As far as any matter of times goes I have to live in the here, and now. Nividia works today. Does that hideous FOSS Nosferatu driver even 3D accelerate? When I ran it I wasn't too impressed. When FOSS can compete with closed source on merit I will use it. Until then I am not going to let any pie in the sky ideology limit what I can do.

                  Heck I'd run Windows if it was better than Linux, but it isn't. That is what's so. It is a competitive world. Win or lose. I'd rather run with the winners.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    @Kano, Newfie
                    Ethics as in business ethics. Such as, having suppliers putting their products on the table and letting consumers sort things out, instead of relying on e.g. strong-arming other vendors behind closed doors.
                    And that's definitely something to care about, for a sustained competitive landscape, which favors every user in the long run, no matter which camp you root for.
                    Failure to do so is akin to shooting one self in the foot.

                    Case in point, AMD's decision to stop chasing the high-end performance crown.
                    Really? Intel got caught threatening OEMs in the P4 days not to offer Athlon systems, they denied any wrong-doing long enough for them to regain a technological advantage while AMD bled money, which meant the blue team could settle out of court for PEANUTS...
                    Now even as a die-hard Intel user, how can one be pleased with like 5 times higher retail prices for their hardware, for the privilege of having a, what... 33%? 50% perfomance edge? How does that even benefit to you?

                    Oh and please, Nouveau's completely irrelevant. nvidia getting all the money for doing nothing? Poor argument, extremely poor argument.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Meanwhile back at the ranch...

                      ... while Tonto and the Lone Ranger were plucking watermelons ... Intel secretly infiltrated the AMD development team with chimps dressed in monkey suits to sabotage the Bulldozer design! Come off it with your conspiracy theories will ya? Intel is, was, and always will be number one. All Intel needs to compete with is their engineering excellence. If AMD could do better I'm sure they would.

                      The last thing I want to have happen is to have ignorant consumers having any say of any sort. I mean listen to yourself.

                      Personally I think AMD has made a smart business decision lately not pursuing the high end. Who needs it? If you do then shell out the bucks for one of Intel's stratospheric chips. No one is twisting anyone's arm, contrary to your back room delusions.

                      All that remains is to stay informed as best as you can then make purchasing decisions based on rational facts, price comparisons, and benchmark scores, not emotional rumor mill folly.

                      Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                      @Kano, Newfie
                      Ethics as in business ethics. Such as, having suppliers putting their products on the table and letting consumers sort things out, instead of relying on e.g. strong-arming other vendors behind closed doors.
                      And that's definitely something to care about, for a sustained competitive landscape, which favors every user in the long run, no matter which camp you root for.
                      Failure to do so is akin to shooting one self in the foot.

                      Case in point, AMD's decision to stop chasing the high-end performance crown.
                      Really? Intel got caught threatening OEMs in the P4 days not to offer Athlon systems, they denied any wrong-doing long enough for them to regain a technological advantage while AMD bled money, which meant the blue team could settle out of court for PEANUTS...
                      Now even as a die-hard Intel user, how can one be pleased with like 5 times higher retail prices for their hardware, for the privilege of having a, what... 33%? 50% perfomance edge? How does that even benefit to you?

                      Oh and please, Nouveau's completely irrelevant. nvidia getting all the money for doing nothing? Poor argument, extremely poor argument.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Guys quit fighting. Seriously. This is pathetic.

                        "Paul Frederick", "Kano" are right. Nvidia was first to support their GPU+whole stack for linux, boosting linux as platform for something else than servers. Desktops. Later they became lame with support and simply failed with optimus.

                        "asdx" you are right too. AMD was first to partially opensource their GPUs and I think first to hire (very small) team to actually help implementing functionality. Now they would win, if not for absence of features, performance, lack of progress in the driver itself - all thanks to small team, team shaped in size according to current market share (not persuited marketshare, like they do under W) and not according to driver complexity.
                        This is why many think AMD opensource, while existing, is pathetic.

                        Now you have: working high performance GPU on blob, barely working high performance GPU on opensource and working somewhat-capable GPU on opensource.
                        It is true, that AMD continued to push FGLRX, where it is still not near as good as nvidia - but they
                        a) lost some userbase, who saw that AMD puts resources in closed source - same what nvidia did and have no major breakthrough plans.
                        b) ended persuing same approach that nvidia did right from start.

                        I did a poll here once about "Would you switch to AMD from nvidia if they(AMD) deliver usable opengl4 driver" - the results were 90% pro.

                        So, please understand, that there are people who WOULD change, but CAN'T because they either expect or need working hardware rather than code-based sane driver.
                        They are not bound to nvidia thanks to their fanatism, but only because there is no better solution.
                        AMD with their FGLRX try to create "equal" solution, but I seriously doubt waters will flow, when levels are equal.

                        You can try talk to AMD about finding a better way to improve opensource situation than currently. A lot people did and all their ideas were talked down BY AMD ITSELF.
                        Seeing how little AMD _actually_ cares about _working_ opensource, I don't use them. Blown 120 for card that AMD does not care to support much. Felt pain. Enough for me.

                        So, its not black and white. Use what you think is right. If AMD cared to change things, it would...

                        "Enverex", please you should not use "windows benchmarks" for reference. This is about Linux.
                        If you are thinking about buying graphics hardware that works only under windows - this is not Linux compatible hardware.
                        You cannot pull argument "my car is faster" and then add "if it runs in vacuum". Stay on same road please when you compare, especially because nvidia is no less capable under windows as it is under linux or linux/wine.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post
                          Intel is, was, and always will be number one.
                          Incorrect. Please check who Cyrix were and what happened to them.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            @PsynoKhi0

                            You have to pay more for the fastest intel cpus than those from amd, but they are faster. You pay more and get more. If you dont have got the money you could go with the celeron/pentium brands as well. I would say a 3ghz pentium will beat any amd cpu in terms of single/dual core speed which is important for many games. It is not my problem what cpu you can afford or not.

                            The new amd trinity chips with a bit faster 3d engine than intel hd 4000 might power more midclass systems soon. The fx series of chips are basically useless, for hardcore gamers you still need intel cpus and for the rest the other ones are enough.

                            I support many Kanotix users, which are much fewer than Ubuntu users thats clear. When a gfx driver is bad ppl ask me first. I will definitely not suggest hardware with the worst Linux support i know of. If you do not own a lowend gfx card where speed is unimportant you usually want to use the speed you payed for. The most easy way is to use nvidia dedicated gfx cards on desktop systems. For laptops i mainly suggest to go for intel ONLY systems as they are usually the most painless ones. Of course i test fglrx (and amd oss drivers) as soon as there is a new one. Usually they fix no problem that was known before. If amd fixes something then maybe with a 2-3 months delay in case they are fast. Some issues have been fixed 11 month after i reported em first. After that the driver was dropped for "legacy" hardware. This just happened again, but if you want to use oss drivers nobody will hold you back. But please do not suggest highend hardware for oss driver usage, that will only lead to disappointment.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              You're absolutely right

                              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                              Guys quit fighting. Seriously. This is pathetic.

                              "Paul Frederick", "Kano" are right. Nvidia was first to support their GPU+whole stack for linux, boosting linux as platform for something else than servers. Desktops. Later they became lame with support and simply failed with optimus.

                              "asdx" you are right too. AMD was first to partially opensource their GPUs and I think first to hire (very small) team to actually help implementing functionality. Now they would win, if not for absence of features, performance, lack of progress in the driver itself - all thanks to small team, team shaped in size according to current market share (not persuited marketshare, like they do under W) and not according to driver complexity.
                              This is why many think AMD opensource, while existing, is pathetic.

                              Now you have: working high performance GPU on blob, barely working high performance GPU on opensource and working somewhat-capable GPU on opensource.
                              It is true, that AMD continued to push FGLRX, where it is still not near as good as nvidia - but they
                              a) lost some userbase, who saw that AMD puts resources in closed source - same what nvidia did and have no major breakthrough plans.
                              b) ended persuing same approach that nvidia did right from start.

                              I did a poll here once about "Would you switch to AMD from nvidia if they(AMD) deliver usable opengl4 driver" - the results were 90% pro.

                              So, please understand, that there are people who WOULD change, but CAN'T because they either expect or need working hardware rather than code-based sane driver.
                              They are not bound to nvidia thanks to their fanatism, but only because there is no better solution.
                              AMD with their FGLRX try to create "equal" solution, but I seriously doubt waters will flow, when levels are equal.

                              You can try talk to AMD about finding a better way to improve opensource situation than currently. A lot people did and all their ideas were talked down BY AMD ITSELF.
                              Seeing how little AMD _actually_ cares about _working_ opensource, I don't use them. Blown 120 for card that AMD does not care to support much. Felt pain. Enough for me.

                              So, its not black and white. Use what you think is right. If AMD cared to change things, it would...

                              "Enverex", please you should not use "windows benchmarks" for reference. This is about Linux.
                              If you are thinking about buying graphics hardware that works only under windows - this is not Linux compatible hardware.
                              You cannot pull argument "my car is faster" and then add "if it runs in vacuum". Stay on same road please when you compare, especially because nvidia is no less capable under windows as it is under linux or linux/wine.

                              What tans my hide is AMD has said some things, then done others. I'd be more on their side if either they didn't promise the Moon, yet fail to deliver, or just were more consistent. I'll admit Nvidia's policy isn't ideal, but at least they're not all over the map. So I have to respect Nvidia more. Nvidia just seems more honorable to me than AMD. They're not lying to me, or insulting my intelligence by saying one thing, then doing another.

                              Furthermore it is my understanding that in order to acquire all of the technology that Nvidia uses they have had to enter agreements with other entities themselves. Elements of these contracts constrain Nvidia from disclosing proprietary information they use. What is Nvidia supposed to do? They have 3 choices here, either don't use the best tech, throw their partners under the bus to make the FOSS zealots happy, or do what they're doing. I imagine they're doing the best they can.

                              I hate to break it to people but we don't live in a perfect world where Unicorns run around crapping out rainbows. Those who get along the best compromise when they need to. The rest cut off their own noses to spite their faces. That is too ugly for me.

                              If AMD is the good guys then fit me for an Imperial Stormtrooper suit of armor. Because I'm not comfortable living the life of a rag tag rebel if it means I have to sacrifice. Ethics don't increase frames per second for me.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Where do you think I got those numbers from?

                                Originally posted by asdx
                                Number don't lie? Are you sure? You might want to ask the Nouveau people about the blob lying you.
                                That is the output from Darkplaces with the benchmark switch. The Blob has nothing to do with it. Don't make me go get LordHavoc to spank you! He uses AMD by the way. At least I think that is what he told me.

                                Comment

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