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  • #16
    Originally posted by niniendowarrior View Post
    Just a note... has anyone actually tried to Opensource drivers for ATi cards pre-9200? 3D hardware acceleration is working out of the box, I believe.
    Yes, I currently own an ati 9000 128MB pro, a 9200 128mb, and in my main computer I have a firegl 8800 128MB. I have these cards specifically because of the OSS r200 drivers.

    Yes, I know they are written based off of partial specs. They work very well IMHO. And being as I'm using an FGL 8800, it's pretty fast. And it's great that everything works "out of the box".

    Having OSS drivers influences my purchase, I'll probably have intel next time around.

    It'd be nice if Mike would pick something like the FGL8800 to use as a reference due to it's OSS drivers and run with it in all benches.(for comparison purposes) That is, until something new comes out with OSS drivers. Then that would become the reference for comparison. But even if he doesn't, I still really like this website.

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    • #17
      Just so you know cards that do have open source drivers that are usable for games and stuff like GL desktops.

      For the R200 DRI drivers...
      ATI r200 series
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R200
      8500-9250 ATI cards
      For the consumer cards the 'ATI 8500' with 128 megs of RAM would be the fastest.
      These are probably the best supported ATI cards. Maybe better supported then the Intel stuff.
      Supported well out of the box.


      For the R300 DRI drivers...
      ATI r300 series
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R300
      and
      ATI r400 (or r420) series
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X800
      Probably would want to aim for the X800
      They provide decent speed, work well with AIGLX, but feature support isn't all there.
      I have to use CVS versions of the DRM (Linux kernel portion), DRI, and Mesa for best stability and performance.
      http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building


      The 915 DRI drivers...
      Intel GMA 900 and GMA 950 IGP.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA
      They are featurefull (for the limited hardware), stable, and supported out of the box on recent distros. (anything using Xorg 7.1 especially).

      There are a few variations. The GMA 900 comes with 915 chipsets and comes in a veriaty of core speeds from 166 for the very low voltage chipsets to 333mhz.

      The best performing currently is the GMA 950 IGP chipset which comes in two variations.. The regular 400mhz and then a 200mhz one for very low voltage chipsets.


      Then there is the GMA X3000 and the GMA 3000 which are a unknown quantity right now.




      For 'real' gaming, obviously the best choice is going to go with Nvidia software and propriatory drivers. Best performance and best compatability with products like Cedega and propriatory games.

      I'd be willing to buy a Nvidia card if I was still realy into FPS games, but now not so much..

      But I will NEVER EVER buy a motherboard or audio card or network card or drive controller or ANYTHING with propriatory drivers. With Video cards you have little choice, You have to choose nvidia if you want best performance.. But for motherboards and everything else there are much much better selection of aviable hardware with some of the best stuff supported by Open source drivers. There is no point in having to put with crappy propriatory drivers if you don't have to.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by drag View Post
        Just so you know cards that do have open source drivers that are usable for games and stuff like GL desktops.

        For the R200 DRI drivers...
        ATI r200 series
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R200
        8500-9250 ATI cards
        For the consumer cards the 'ATI 8500' with 128 megs of RAM would be the fastest.
        These are probably the best supported ATI cards. Maybe better supported then the Intel stuff.
        Supported well out of the box.


        For the R300 DRI drivers...
        ATI r300 series
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R300
        and
        ATI r400 (or r420) series
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X800
        Probably would want to aim for the X800
        They provide decent speed, work well with AIGLX, but feature support isn't all there.
        I have to use CVS versions of the DRM (Linux kernel portion), DRI, and Mesa for best stability and performance.
        http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building


        The 915 DRI drivers...
        Intel GMA 900 and GMA 950 IGP.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA
        They are featurefull (for the limited hardware), stable, and supported out of the box on recent distros. (anything using Xorg 7.1 especially).

        There are a few variations. The GMA 900 comes with 915 chipsets and comes in a veriaty of core speeds from 166 for the very low voltage chipsets to 333mhz.

        The best performing currently is the GMA 950 IGP chipset which comes in two variations.. The regular 400mhz and then a 200mhz one for very low voltage chipsets.


        Then there is the GMA X3000 and the GMA 3000 which are a unknown quantity right now.




        For 'real' gaming, obviously the best choice is going to go with Nvidia software and propriatory drivers. Best performance and best compatability with products like Cedega and propriatory games.

        I'd be willing to buy a Nvidia card if I was still realy into FPS games, but now not so much..

        But I will NEVER EVER buy a motherboard or audio card or network card or drive controller or ANYTHING with propriatory drivers. With Video cards you have little choice, You have to choose nvidia if you want best performance.. But for motherboards and everything else there are much much better selection of aviable hardware with some of the best stuff supported by Open source drivers. There is no point in having to put with crappy propriatory drivers if you don't have to.
        New R300 Open / Closed driver tests were just completed by Phoronix. More information can be found @ http://www.phoronix.net/forums/showt...=1518#post1518 (Please discuss the information in the appropriate threads).
        Michael Larabel
        http://www.michaellarabel.com/

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Michael View Post
          New R300 Open / Closed driver tests were just completed by Phoronix. More information can be found @ http://www.phoronix.net/forums/showt...=1518#post1518 (Please discuss the information in the appropriate threads).
          Yeah, and the performance is dismal, for either the OpenSourced drivers or the ATI ones, though the ATI ones are much more performant. It remains to be seen how things play out, but I've got it on good authority that ATI's been listening- the silence has been for a reason on the drivers we DO have. I'm adopting a wait-and-see attitude (for several reasons, actually...) with them- but if they were to Open Source things right now or at least give us real technical data, I'd be convinced on the spot.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
            Yeah, and the performance is dismal, for either the OpenSourced drivers or the ATI ones, though the ATI ones are much more performant. It remains to be seen how things play out, but I've got it on good authority that ATI's been listening- the silence has been for a reason on the drivers we DO have. I'm adopting a wait-and-see attitude (for several reasons, actually...) with them- but if they were to Open Source things right now or at least give us real technical data, I'd be convinced on the spot.
            Svartalf:

            What silence are you referring to from ATI?
            Michael Larabel
            http://www.michaellarabel.com/

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Michael View Post
              Svartalf:

              What silence are you referring to from ATI?
              Well, there's things like Sideport initially being a functionality supported in the Linux drivers and then it's pulled, never seemingly to return. And then there's the absolutely dismal performance of these chips compared to the Windows drivers (never mind the comparison between the theoretical performance on the spec sheets versus the Linux speed...). There's a raftload more of these things, but they know about them all, and don't seem to be interested (or lack the resources, more like...) in fixing the problems in a timely manner (I've had issues since I owned the ATI chipset based Athlon64 laptop, nearly a year ago today- issues that don't seem to be getting resolved...). That would be relative silence in many's books (incl. mine...).

              But, as it's been indicated in my previous posting, I've got info from a pretty reliable source that this is about to change for the better. No, can't say any more than that- it'd probably get me in trouble, it would...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                Well, there's things like Sideport initially being a functionality supported in the Linux drivers and then it's pulled, never seemingly to return. And then there's the absolutely dismal performance of these chips compared to the Windows drivers (never mind the comparison between the theoretical performance on the spec sheets versus the Linux speed...). There's a raftload more of these things, but they know about them all, and don't seem to be interested (or lack the resources, more like...) in fixing the problems in a timely manner (I've had issues since I owned the ATI chipset based Athlon64 laptop, nearly a year ago today- issues that don't seem to be getting resolved...). That would be relative silence in many's books (incl. mine...).
                The lack of silence from corporations isn't anything ground shattering. NVIDIA is the same way, if not worse, as there isn't even a public unofficial BugZilla. The release cycle for NVIDIA can also be debated. ATI is very interested in correcting bugs and improving the quality of their drivers, they simply have priorities and other objectives that they must accomplish first. If you will recall from the months past with the dynamic display management options and all of the other mobile-related improvements, Lenovo announced their Linux support for the T60p right after that... Coincidence?
                Michael Larabel
                http://www.michaellarabel.com/

                Comment


                • #23
                  Oh, this is a nice one:
                  http://download2.rapid7.com/r7-0025/

                  Security vunerabilities in Nvidia binary drivers.

                  With active proof-of-concept exploit for Linux. This is not only a local vunerability with X + nvidia drivers, but it can be remotely exploitable.. for instance if your browsing to a malicious website it's possible for somebody to have your browser display something _which_could_give_them_root_access_.

                  This is a problem with how Nvidia accelerates rendering of text. This is a very very serious problem.

                  This bug has been around for years now. First reported in 2004 it took nearly 2 years for Nvidia to aknowledge the problem, which was in July 2006 and they still haven't fixed it.

                  To me this is headlines-style stuff.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by drag View Post
                    First reported in 2004 it took nearly 2 years for Nvidia to aknowledge the problem, which was in July 2006 and they still haven't fixed it.
                    Fixed in 96xx Beta drivers :-)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Michael View Post
                      If you will recall from the months past with the dynamic display management options and all of the other mobile-related improvements, Lenovo announced their Linux support for the T60p right after that... Coincidence?
                      Heh, I'd think not. As for priorities...You'd think they'd FIX something that is patently broken rather than adding new features...

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                      • #26
                        The availability or lack thereof of OSS drivers does not really influence my purchase. I happen to have run both NVIDIA and ATi cards on open and blob drivers and they all run fine. My laptop's Radeon M9000 (RV250) runs nicely on the OSS drivers and my desktop's x1900GT runs nicely on the fglrx drivers. I used to use an NVIDIA 6200 and it ran fine with its blob drivers too.

                        Oh, and my motherboard is an NVIDIA Nforce4 chipset model. All of the devices on it work with OSS drivers:

                        SATA: nv_sata
                        IDE: generic NForce IDE drivers
                        Ethernet: forcedeth (better than the prop. nvnet module as forcedeth supports GbE.)
                        USB: generic OHCI/UHCI drivers
                        Sound: snd_intel-8x0
                        i2c: i2c_nforce2
                        Last edited by MU_Engineer; 11-02-2006, 11:30 PM.

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