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Any update: HD Radeon 4xxx v.s. Nviida 260?

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  • #16
    This is my expirence with ATI/AMD. I try to tell this as neutral as posible (as a no ATI fan).

    I have always had nvidia, since I bought this laptop (HD3650 mobility). I bought it in 2008, and at that time there were alot of problems with fglrx. I had problems with wine and compiz, but the installation weren't any problems.

    Now in 2009 with 9.6 I am fairly impressed by the progress fglrx has gone through. No it isn't perfect yet, but a whole lot better than in the early 2008. Today I don't think about driver problems anymore, when I use my computer. I can even run a lot of wine apps now, which were impossible for just 2/3 month ago.

    Here is my problems left:

    - XV under compositing with fgrlrx = Not good. Tearing and slow video playback. With composite turned off, its fairly good. I have heard opengl is without tearing, but not as good quality.

    - Maximizing / resizing under compositing is slow out of the box. It is easy solved installing a patched version of Xorg. I don't know if this is fglrx's fault.

    - Still wine is able to crash, but I don't know if its fglrx or wine's fault. It seems 3D related, so it might be fglrx.

    - 2D is alittle slower with compositing, than without. But that difference is almost gone in the newer versions. Without compositing, 2D is as fast as in windows.

    I really don't have others problems with fglrx. But I want to move to the oss drivers soon, because last time i tried it 2D was very fast and xv video worked perfect without tearing.
    Last edited by tball; 07-07-2009, 05:25 PM.

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    • #17
      I was curious about benchmarks. In Windows, there is a number of sites that compare via GAMES benchmarks and such.

      But, for Linux, not so many. This site has done some reviews on cards and presented benchmarks but I was wondering about the current situation.

      How do they compare? For e.g., HD Radeon 4870 or 4890 v.s. GeForce 260 GTX?

      Those cards are neck and neck depending on the game but in Linux, is there any disparity due to the ATI factor? I don't even care if Nvidia in Linux is a bit lower in benchmarks compared to Windoze but I was wondering about how the cards compare to ATI's. Is the review done here still apply or is there an update based on the situation of Catalyst?

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      • #18
        Fglrx 3D performance is basically on par with the Windows driver. Of course, I'm talking only about cross-platform titles and not games running with Wine.

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        • #19
          The OpenGL stack is pretty much the same in the Linux and Windows XP drivers. 2D and video code is significantly different between the Linux and Windows drivers, however, since the acceleration APIs have very little in common.

          There aren't a lot of benchmarks comparing different vendors' products under Linux but here's one :

          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...num=1&single=1
          Last edited by bridgman; 07-08-2009, 01:11 AM.

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          • #20
            Does it matter which mobo you use with either of these cards?

            Is there any issues with using a Nvidia card in one of the AMD AM2+ or AM3 motherboards?

            I would probably use the ATI or Nvidia card (ones we're comparing, that generation, anyway) in my P35 mobo but I wanted to buy/build a 2nd system. I am debating whether to build a used P45 system (not a lot of upgrade options but still decent) or a newer AM2+ or AM3 system. The potential issue or factor would be that I have a Nvidia 7950GT in the P35 system I have. I could use this in the 2nd system as it probably doesn't have much re-sale value. However, if I buy an AMD AM2+ / AM3 system, I am not sure whether Nvidia cards can be used without problems. I know many have ATI integrated IGP graphics but I still would like to know about discrete grahpics cards options.

            I suppose I could sell the GeForce 79xx series card for real cheap or find a friend/relative who wants/needs a simple discrete card but I was looking for all my options if I buy a 2nd system.

            I also was curious about using one brand's card in the other (chipset) mobo. I know Intel has CrossFire but to my knowledge, it doesn't matter whether the discrete graphics card is ATI or Nvidia as it only matters if you are using two cards.

            TIA for any info!

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            • #21
              I am using an AM2+ system. My mobo is K10N780SLIX3 running a Phenom II 940 and I use a GTX260-216. I've had no issues with this combination, the card runs beautifully in the system and gives terrific performance in both native games and under wine (depending on how far wine itself has come along for a given title). I can't comment on the ATI card since I haven't used ATI since my switch to Linux years ago, but I've been really happy with my GTX260-216, that card is a beast.

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              • #22
                My GTX 260 worked fine for about half a year...
                Then it started squealing like a girl, no matter if I play certain games (Lugaru or X3 squeal like hell, Quake Wars, Doom 3, Americas Army and Prey run without squealing, creating high-poly models in Blender 3D makes the card squeal like hell...)
                Seriously, it's unbearable. I'd buy a new card, but I'm afraid, that it'd just have the same fault.
                And I heard about the crappy ATI drivers at every corner, so I can't buy one of theirs either... So I'll have to wait till NVIDIA uses better hardware or until ATI has better Linux drivers.

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                • #23
                  Couldn't you return the card?

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                  • #24
                    No, they say it's "normal"/"normal wearout".
                    Seriously, it's barely half a year old and... well, I'd definitely call it defect. It can't be considered normal that they produce such squealing crap and expect people to swallow it.

                    I'll post a link to a video where someone recorded his squealing GTX260 whichs squealing level is similar to mine. I don't have that link handy right now.

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                    • #25
                      Try contacting the manufacturer.

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                      • #26
                        Too much FUD going on here. It's always "I read this or that". Please, think about what you're reading instead of accepting it on blind faith. Panix, AMD does not restrict what video cards can be used with their motherboards; that would be illegal. MAXX, you "heard" about bad ATI drivers. Have you tried them to see if they meet your needs?

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                        • #27
                          Well, crumja, i don't feel like buying an ATI card for 300 bucks just to test if the drivers are suitable for my needs...
                          My GTX 260 sounds like this or even worse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAnLxMyapOs

                          And not just in menus/during intros, but also while playing certain games and creating 3d models, even in 2d mode, while moving windows around.
                          I tried activating the vsynch in the NVIDIA options which did not help, I tried clocking down the card which did not help eighter, I tried close to everything....

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                          • #28
                            That kind of squealing is usually either the fan or the voltage regulator; can you tell which one is making the noise ?

                            I guess I should mention that most of our cards sell for a lot less than $300 no matter where you buy them.

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                            • #29
                              Well, either the voltage regulator or the capacitors.
                              I checked the fan when it first occurred, it's definitely not the fan.

                              Also I'm not 100% sure if it occurred before or after my old power supply died. I think it was after I changed to a new power supply. The old one had 500 Watts and the new one has 800 Watts. Might be connected to that somehow, or maybe it just coincidentally occurred around that time. It was not there right after changing the PSU, but rather a few days after.
                              Maybe it had just enough juice to run at lower clockspeeds on the older PSU and so there occurred no squealing, although that's unlikely. I wish NVIDIA would just change to decent capacitors (preferably solid state ones) and to decent voltage regulators.
                              I'd gladly pay 50 additional bucks if I could be sure not to get any squealing in exchange...

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                              • #30
                                Nvidia Redux

                                Originally posted by MAXX View Post
                                Well, either the voltage regulator or the capacitors.
                                I checked the fan when it first occurred, it's definitely not the fan.

                                Also I'm not 100% sure if it occurred before or after my old power supply died. I think it was after I changed to a new power supply. The old one had 500 Watts and the new one has 800 Watts. Might be connected to that somehow, or maybe it just coincidentally occurred around that time. It was not there right after changing the PSU, but rather a few days after.
                                Maybe it had just enough juice to run at lower clockspeeds on the older PSU and so there occurred no squealing, although that's unlikely. I wish NVIDIA would just change to decent capacitors (preferably solid state ones) and to decent voltage regulators.
                                I'd gladly pay 50 additional bucks if I could be sure not to get any squealing in exchange...
                                Hi, to preface this I've used Nvidia cards for a long time and been very happy with them. Their drivers have always been first rate. Unfortunately drivers are only part of the reason to buy a particular video card and from what I've seen lately they've been cutting corners on hardware design and manufacturing. This is the reason for the short lifetime. Does your computer get turned on and off daily? more often? less often? That's a factor in the failures.

                                This is from the fourth in a series of investigative articles about the Nvidia failures and are fairly technical, but explain and detail the reasons for Nvidia's problems. I have not seen anything else more informative on the web. This refers to ALL Nvidia cards, some more than others, I would suggest reading all four articles to get a good understanding of what's going on. This writer has access to an electron microscope and there are pictures in the article explaining what he's talking about:

                                http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...rfill-problems
                                WHEN WE TOLD YOU about the 'bad bumps' in the Apple Macbook Pro 15-inch models the other day, we expected it to end there.

                                But as luck would have it, Nvidia pointed us to a much deeper problem that not only affects at least some of the Macbook Pro notebooks, but likely every other high Temperature of Glassification (Tg) underfill chip Nvidia makes.

                                Technical Background
                                To understand this article, you really need to understand the problem, so please read the technical three part series (Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3) explaining what the problem is and where it occurs.

                                Nvidia's current problem stems from its half-hearted response to its earlier problem by only changing the underfill. Nvidia said that's what it did, both near the end of our initial Macbook article and in a later Cnet article here.
                                Last edited by LenS; 08-22-2009, 09:45 PM.

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