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  • #31
    Originally posted by mike4 View Post
    They are still to lazy to create a full featured webcam driver, even as MS market share was down already two years ago to 78%. We probably have to wait a little longer
    as they are only discovering the mobile market...
    Maybe that is because most people are already using notebooks connected to an external display to serve as their 'desktop' and since notebooks already have their own webcam that is 'typically' picked up and detected by Linux they don't see the need to change?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
      That I have to agree. Yesterday I was out shopping for a replacement keyboard + mouse after having accidentally dumped a whole pitcher of water over my existing hardware and spent some time comparing between a Logitech wireless combo package and a Microsoft wireless combo package. (it did not kill the keyboard but I just wanted to have an excuse to get a new keyboard...)

      The Microsoft set had a bigger keyboard with higher keys that provided much better 'squishiness' than the Logitech and its mouse was both larger and had a higher curvature than the tiny mouse offered by the Logitech package. And the Microsoft set cost only about $4 - 5 more than the Logitech set. Twas a no brainer; picked the Microsoft set without any further hesitation.

      Well my experience has been opposite with Logitech devices. They have always been reliable for me. I even accidently dumped a whisky and coke on my HTPC K400 a few weeks ago. Figured I had nothing to lose so I threw it in the dishwasher, let it sit for a couple of days and fired it up. Works like a new keyboard, touchpad and all.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
        Well my experience has been opposite with Logitech devices. They have always been reliable for me. I even accidently dumped a whisky and coke on my HTPC K400 a few weeks ago. Figured I had nothing to lose so I threw it in the dishwasher, let it sit for a couple of days and fired it up. Works like a new keyboard, touchpad and all.
        Like i said, it didn't kill the keyboard. I was just using it as an excuse to treat myself to new hardware.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
          Spare me your moral high ground. If you are so ethical and upright, throw away all your electronic devices because all of them are using patent encumbered technology in some way and most of them are made in China by workers who live below poverty level and get paid peanuts. Go live the life of a hermit in the mountains in isolation with nothing but the clothes on your back and no electricitry. I dare you.

          If Microsoft are nazis than you are a terrorist and everyone's public enemy no.1.
          I know you have no honour and ethics, but remember that, the ones who support terrorists are terrorist.

          Originally posted by dee. View Post
          I would never buy anything from Microsoft. Supporting a company ran by the modern equivalent of nazis is not something my conscience could abide with. But I guess some people just aren't very ethical...
          I hear you!

          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          That's the thing, Microsoft is actually in the same boat as Sony. They both are really good hardware manufacturers. Their hardware products are usually top-notch. But their software is what's horrible. So if you don't buy Windows, but buy their hardware, it's actually a pretty good message overall. And there is nothing bad in it in the slightest, because MS hardware is supported as well on Linux as Logitech.
          Yes, MS hardware is comparable to Logitech and usually mid-high quality.
          But remember two things:

          It is microsoft, that Logitech does not support Linux.
          If you purchase something from one division, it doesn't matter - the corporation still recieves money and distributes it the way it sees.

          So, by purchase of microsoft, you support Logitech policy. All my friends who purchased Logitech wrote an email to Logitech requesting Linux support. Just that they know how stupid they are.
          Last edited by brosis; 04-28-2013, 11:24 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
            Except that Linux support has improved. Well, at least where the OSS driver is concerned. It's defiitely fast enough to serve as a drop-in driver for non gaming-related activities on Linux in its current state today.

            Catalyst is still behind on supporting recent versions of xserver, but Ubuntu generally keeps its xserver packages in sync with the version supported by Catalyst. I believe Catalyst currently supports xserver v1.13, which is currently what Ubuntu 13.04 uses, so Catalyst 'should' work barring any unfortunate incidents.

            For Fedora, the best option is to use X -1 version of the distro and stick to it for as long as possible, where X = latest released version. OpenSUSE and Mageia both have longer release durations as well so their xserver versions are typically 1 version below the latest upstream, which should play nice with Catalyst.

            I'd go as far to say that if anybody wants to use a dedicated AMD graphics card on Linux with the open drivers, AMD is by far the best bet (barring Southern Islands).
            I think the Intel OpenSource driver is much better than ATI's. And it is officially supported and developed by Intel.
            I've been using ATI for years, and have suffered their deceit and lies. Now I know that AMD/ATI free up the obsolete specifications only to leave their "not so old" cards unsupported and make the community take care of its maintenance.
            Currently I have an nVidia and Intel HD 4000. By far the proprietary driver from nVidia and Intel OpenSource are much better than any of the drivers from AMD/ATI I tryied.
            Yes, I think this is offtopic anyway.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by YAFU View Post
              I think the Intel OpenSource driver is much better than ATI's. And it is officially supported and developed by Intel.
              I've been using ATI for years, and have suffered their deceit and lies. Now I know that AMD/ATI free up the obsolete specifications only to leave their "not so old" cards unsupported and make the community take care of its maintenance.
              Currently I have an nVidia and Intel HD 4000. By far the proprietary driver from nVidia and Intel OpenSource are much better than any of the drivers from AMD/ATI I tryied.
              Yes, I think this is offtopic anyway.
              Well,.. one could call it as "lack of manpower" as far as I see it.
              But if one wants performance on opensource drivers, Intel still has hardware to provide, while AMD software to maintain.
              With closed source, yes, no questions. But if you don't want closed source, see above.

              Comment


              • #37
                Has this been mentioned before? Anyway have a look at:

                https://opensource.logitech.com/open...ce_at_Logitech

                Webcams work yea but by fully featured I mean, zoom, move lens around, change resolution and things like that. The default Linux drivers are not smart enough for that.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by mike4 View Post
                  Has this been mentioned before? Anyway have a look at:

                  https://opensource.logitech.com/open...ce_at_Logitech

                  Webcams work yea but by fully featured I mean, zoom, move lens around, change resolution and things like that. The default Linux drivers are not smart enough for that.
                  My c905c works, changes resolution/fps, autofocus switchable.
                  Webcams are different. As long as Logitech adheres to standards like USB UVC, there are no problems whatso ever.
                  The problem, and its with input also, if one deviates from standard, by using extensions or own protocol... and decides to support only one system.

                  Thats exactly why Sun sued microsoft, when ms tried to embrace expand extinguish Java with own uncertified virtual machine.
                  We can't sue Logitech,.. but we can boycott their products.
                  Last edited by brosis; 04-28-2013, 12:06 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                    I'd go as far to say that if anybody wants to use a dedicated AMD graphics card on Linux with the open drivers, AMD is by far the best bet (barring Southern Islands).
                    You have one too many AMD in your sentence there Unless you mean that it's better to use AMD and not Sapphire or so.
                    But yeap, lately the r600g driver has been improving a whole lot. Even before the UVD drop it was really good, and now it's even better.

                    Originally posted by YAFU View Post
                    I think the Intel OpenSource driver is much better than ATI's. And it is officially supported and developed by Intel.
                    I've been using ATI for years, and have suffered their deceit and lies. Now I know that AMD/ATI free up the obsolete specifications only to leave their "not so old" cards unsupported and make the community take care of its maintenance.
                    Currently I have an nVidia and Intel HD 4000. By far the proprietary driver from nVidia and Intel OpenSource are much better than any of the drivers from AMD/ATI I tryied.
                    Actually, I also have NVIDIA and Intel on my main device, and AMD on two other devices. And, well, I have some nasty issues with Intel here, something that never happened with r600g. But then I can't really file bug reports, as my kernel is tainted by the NVIDIA blob, and I don't want to keep uninstalling it every time I want to test whether the IGP works better or not.

                    Originally posted by brosis View Post
                    If you purchase something from one division, it doesn't matter - the corporation still recieves money and distributes it the way it sees.
                    Yes, but they should be able to see which division earn what amount of money, and if their software division is doing poorly, then obviously they need to change their policies.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                      Infantile logical fallacies? Spoiken like a kid who has not even seen a tiny bit of the real world, or has not even known the real meaning of hardship.
                      Gets accused of logical fallacies > decides to prove the opposition wrong by throwing around ad-hominems... there should definitely be a meme about this.

                      Hehe, you couldn't be more wrong though. In actual truth, I'm 30 years old, and if you're going to talk to me about hardship... come back to me when you've spent a minimum of three years homeless, without a job, thousands of euros in debt, watching many of your family members/friends die in a short period of time... trying to combat depression and substance addiction for about ten years... let me know when you've spent a substantial part of your life on the rock bottom, lying in a metaphorical (sometimes literal) ditch, and then pull yourself back up and build your life back together, going through treatment, education, paying off debt, building your life back piece by piece... when you've gone through all of that and gained some years of maturity, THEN maybe you'll be qualified to talk to me about "hardship". Until that glorious day, kindly shut the fuck up about things you don't know shit about, fanboi.

                      You don't even have any proof to back up your claims, period. You are just another one of those 'it sucks because its Microsoft' people
                      Let's stop your angry and misguided fanboi rant right here, period. It's always the first instinct of every ms fanboi I've seen to instantly assume the defensive position of "you're only saying it sucks because it's microsoft!" But when you really, actually think about it (if you're capable of such a feat) it's actually interesting... you're in fact saying, that microsoft's reputation is so bad, that most people just assume it "sucks because it's microsoft"... why would they have such a bad reputation, do you ever wonder? Even people who don't know much about Linux or FOSS or couldn't give a shit about software ethics are most of the time cursing microsoft and have a sort of resigned, grudging attitude towards windows, kind of like "hey, it sucks, but what choice is there, mac? haha lol".

                      So now you try to turn that bad reputation around, and use it as a defensive position against microsoft, like "everyone is just saying that microsoft sucks"... like, the fact that microsoft has a poor reputation, that most people know their products suck, somehow counts as a merit for them? Insane troll logic, ahoy.

                      ANYWHO, another point ms fanbois ALWAYS bring to the battle... "you have no evidence!" Can we get Penn & Teller here? Because this smells like BULLSHIT. There's plenty of evidence for anyone willing to LOOK with open eyes. Start from the wikipedia page of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_microsoft and work your way up there. That's only the tip of the iceberg though. If you can truly put aside your biased views and fanboyism, you can find so outrageous things about microsoft, it's mind-boggling how they are even allowed to operate (well it's not really... can anyone say "political bribery"? but I digress...). There's a veritable wealth of legal documentation showing exactly how microsoft has stolen, cheated, abused, committed pretty much every dirty trick in the book to get to where they are now during the last decade or two. Does it not even make you wonder how microsoft has been sued so many times for anti-competitive practices?

                      Groklaw is another good resource. They have plenty of good articles documenting the abuses of microsoft. Most recently, microsoft is passing out software patents to trolls like cheap cigars, using them as proxies to attack Linux, Android and FOSS in general.

                      who only know how to rat on anything without even being able to see the greater picture, and the whole basis of your malice towards Microsoft is really just "they don't give us the source code of that software so that FOSS can use
                      No it's not. The basis of my "malice" towards microsoft is the way they have used anti-competitive practices for the past decade. How they have cheated, lied, stolen and frauded their way to the top. How they use patents as weapons. How they have twisted the arms of OEM's to prevent competing OS's from being sold with computers, and how they have basically made windows a mandatory purchase when buying a computer, which has only been started to be remedied in the last couple of years. How they use things like UEFI/Secure Boot to underhandedly hinder the adoption of competing operating systems. How all of their products are riddled with "features" that are hostile towards user freedom, such as DRM, ads, spyware. How they lobby to politicians and spread FUD and lies and are inherently hostile towards user freedom. How they have tried and still try to wrest the control of the hardware away from the user with "trusted computing" schemes. And so on.

                      it', which has nothing to do with ethics. 'Ethics' is just a word you throw it to make yourself think that discriminating against powerful closed software puts you in some sort of moral high ground when more than half of the world's software developers and endusers really don't give a crapshoot of whether the tools they use on a daily basis are proprietary or not. The basis of almost all the world's economic activity is built over Microsoft technologies. The driving force of virtually all computing and hardware consumerism is also directly tied to Microsoft.
                      Driving force? Please. Microsoft hasn't done any actual innovation since windows 3.1. Everything they've done since has been by smaller companies they've acquired, or copied/stolen from other companies, or from free software projects. Microsoft might have innovated once upon a time in the faraway past. It doesn't anymore, it became big, bloated, fat and complacent. Now it only acts as a gatekeeper, trying to keep away market disruptors, actual innovators, by abusing flawed patent and copyright systems.

                      The actual innovation is being done on the FOSS side. Microsoft is an old dinosaur that deserves to die.

                      History has tons of examples where new technologies introduced by competitors failed to take off until Microsoft came in with their own implementation. Touchscreen notebooks had no place in a consumer's home until Windows 8 shipped, and now you see people all over asking 'does this notebook as a touch screen' before even finding out more about new computers.
                      In what reality? Have you even seen windows 8 sales figures? No one really gives a shit about windows 8, or touchscreens on laptops (other than ms fanboi hipsters). It's a failure and doesn't drive any sales.

                      And tha is just the consumer side of things. A boy like you will never have seen just how deeply entrenched Microsoft is in the server and enterprise space (hint: their server share is much, much greater than 40% Wikipedia will have you believe). If Microsoft collapses the core computing technology that drives the management of the global economy will freeze overnight and collapse.
                      Oh, now there are some secret, invisible market shares. You don't have any sources or evidence, but we should all trust you when you say so. Right.
                      Oh, and microsoft drives the global economy now. Riiight.

                      Just one question: does microsoft also pay for the meds that keep you in your made up distorted reality?

                      Don't give me all that ethical bullshit about monopolies when you can't even accept the fact that Microsoft is capable of making more polished software than the competition. The most ubiquitous RDBMS package in the FOSS world, MySQL, can't even hold a candle to SQL Server if we are to compare them on core functionality alone (an RDBMS that does not even support the full SQL standard and ignores the all important CHECK command? you serious? Even IBM DB2 and Postgres does, damnit). And for the sake of ethics you are insisting that companies stick with an inferior solution just because it is FOSS, because it's so ethical to demand that a business ruin itself by not using the best tools for its business and going with inferior FOSS solutions. What a joke. OpenOffice.org (and now LibreOffice) had YEARS to build up its reputation and challenge MS Office for the desktop office suite, and today we have v4 of Libreoffice that has an interface which looks ripped out of Office 97, can't even grammar check properly, can't format paragraphs properly and can't even SAVE pictures properly. And programming? Vi may be great, but when it comes to IDEs there's nothing the FOSS world can offer that can even remotely come close to Microsoft Visual Studio. Even the latest versions of Eclipse and QtCreator is no where as polished and well-integrated into the respective operating systems that they are installed in as Visual Studio on Windows. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration: I do have to use Eclipse when I practice on Java or on Android and its a-ok, but if VS will provide support for the Java SDK i'd do my practices in VS anytime. And I WILL admit that the one area Eclipse trashes VS in is its support for external plugins.
                      Ok, I don't even... what is even going on with that paragraph.

                      "But they are not ethical so we should boycott the best tool for the job and use inferior solutions that will involve massive retraining and migration costs!" is what you will claim. Time to wake up from dreamland, boy. Companies exist to do make money and how they do it is their own business.
                      Nice, more juvenile strawman argumentation. So I guess all the companies who submit code to the linux kernel - the largest FOSS project in the world, like Red Hat, Oracle, Samsung, Nvidia, AMD, Intel, Google... they're all doing it for the kindness of their hearts? And I'm probably just imagining all the profits Google, Samsung and Red Hat have made with open source software? Or the fact that Linux professionals are being headhunted by businesses left and right, how Linux users are so wanted businesses are paying huge wages for anyone who knows their way around Linux?

                      You are a disgrace to the world of software. Somebody who has not even written code for others have no right to determine or judge the value or the 'ethicality' of it, regardless of whether the code is open or not.
                      Actually, I have every right to judge the ethicality of whatever, as has everyone else. This may come as news to you, but people are allowed to think for themselves, instead of sucking the corporate teat of microsoft and buddies. Everyone has the right to look at the facts and make conclusions based on them, like I have done. And the facts show clearly that microsoft uses unethical business practices. And not that it matters but I have written code, my first time writing code was in the 90's on a C-64.

                      What you're saying is basically the equivalent of "anyone who has never manufactured cigarettes has no business determining the 'ethicality' of the tobacco industry". Or "anyone who has never mined for oil has no business determining the 'ethicality' of oil industry". Kind of ridiculous, don't you think? (The correct answer is yes.)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Detructor View Post
                        sooo how is it, owning only a Neo Freerunner?
                        So none of the machine from https://zareason.com/ , http://www.ohava.com/ , https://www.system76.com/ or https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ would qualify? Sure the Intel GPUs in the laptops would be craptacular for gaming, but the hardware would work.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                          The problem with the majority of brands other than logitech is that they seem to target the gamer/neon looks cool crowd. And that spoils it for me.

                          I find aesthetics important.
                          Then do what I've done for forever, use your eons old mechanical keyboard you've had since your 286. http://imagebin.org/255734 It predates the Windows key and works just as well as when it was new.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Just so everyone can see what a nice person Sonadow is, here is what he sent me by PM.

                            Originally posted by Sonadow

                            That's all you have to claim? Lemme tell YOU this: I spent part of my youth in the military. I been through hell and back in there. Heck, I even served time in military prison before for getting into a fight. Where you were playing with your substances I was out there in the field getting the hell knocked out of me. When I got discharged I squandered all my savings and had to turn to my old parents to cough up the money to give me a college education so that I can hopefully find a job in spite of my record. Addiction? You only have YOURSELF and your life to blame, dude. At 29 years of age, I have already been to the deepest depths, much more than you can ever think of, and have already almost condemned myself with a record. And do you know how ti FEELS to have to depend on one's aging parents to provide you with the funds needed to complete an education and being fully aware that they are sacrificing their retirement money all in the hope that their son can one day succeed?

                            Let's stop your angry and misguided fanboi rant right here, period *cut to fit PM length*
                            So the people whom YOU associate with say that MS software is inferior = the whole world agrees that MS software is inferior. Spoken like someone who has never used a single Microsoft product over the last 5 years, where just about every single MS software product soundly puts its FOSS equivalent to shame in both polish and functionality.

                            Anti-competitive is just a new buzzword competition use to say that the incumbent should be thrown aside because they are not capable of competing on the same level.
                            Wow, you're so clueless. Also, a libertard? Figures... Try getting a clue as to what "anti-competitive" actually means. Have a dictionary at hand?

                            Here's a crash course for you. Anti-competitive action is when a market leader abuses their market position to artificially inhibit competition. The classic textbook example is, when a large company comes in town, sets up shop, and sells their widgets at a loss, until all their competition goes bankrupt due to not being able to compete with the prices. The large company has more capital at hand, so they can afford to stay longer in a price fight. Then, the large company gains a (local) monopoly and is able to dictate their prices however they want.

                            Obviously, this kind of situation is bad for the consumers, so laws have been made - pretty much everywhere in the civilized world - to try to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

                            In a nutshell, anti-competition is when you're not competing with the merits of your product/service, instead using other assets, like market position, capital, lobbying etc. to keep your competition away from the market so that you don't have to try to innovate and improve your product/service. This is exactly what microsoft has been doing.

                            Isn't it fun to learn things?

                            No it's not. The basis of my "malice" towards microsoft is the way they have used anti-competitive practices for the past decade. How they have cheated, lied, stolen and frauded their way to the top. *cut to fit PM length*
                            Right, and now you resort to the tired Secure Boot argument which Matthew Garette has already solidly and soundly debunked in the last exchange you had with him. Try something else. Or are you too incompetent to make a change to the UEFI menu? If Linux is so innovative and its users are much more intelligent than Windows users why are they finding it so difficult to change a UEFI setting that any Windows user can do in a second?
                            [/quote]

                            Hm, secure boot was only a part of my argument, what happened to the rest? Conveniently ignored, I assume? Also, matthew garret's word isn't the word of god, nor did he do any such thing.

                            More ad hominems, yawn. (Look it up in the dictionary!)

                            In what reality? Have you even seen windows 8 sales figures? No one really gives a shit about windows 8, or touchscreens on laptops (other than ms fanboi hipsters). It's a failure and doesn't drive any sales.
                            Come back when you actually READ through the contents of enough hardware and notebook forums from all over the world and not just your local forum + Phoronix.
                            Oh, I've read plenty. And pretty much everyone - who isn't a paid shill or astroturfer of microsoft - are saying that windows 8 SUCKS. The sales figures are horrible, they are worse than vista. These are facts, and all the whining you can emit will not change them.

                            Want links? I can post links.

                            http://www.economist.com/economist-a...s-8-be-failure
                            http://www.itwire.com/business-it-ne...for-windows-pc
                            http://nvonews.com/2013/01/24/window...-vs-windows-7/
                            http://windowsitpro.com/windows-8/wi...chain-reaction

                            Oh, now there are some secret, invisible market shares. You don't have any sources or evidence, but we should all trust you when you say so. Right.
                            Oh, and microsoft drives the global economy now. Riiight.
                            I don't have to make up values when I have seen the proof for myself. Whose system do you think powers the frontline operatings of virtually all enterprises?
                            You have seen... ok, let me get one thing straight. Personal experience does not count as "proof". Your personal experience is subject to confirmation bias and the sample size is way too low to make any kind of real conclusions. You see windows because you want to see windows and surround yourself with windows. Actual statistics are much more reliable than your personal experience, and actual statistics say you're wrong.

                            Everyone is moving away from microsoft. Microsoft is in trouble, their stock is falling, no one trusts them due to their years of lies and abuses. Suck it up, fanboy.

                            Actually, I have every right to judge the ethicality of whatever, as has everyone else. *cut to fit PM length.*
                            You have every right to an opinion, but not the right to pass opinion as fact. Which is exactly what you are doing. The only type of people who will attempt to draw a line between money and foul money are the people who have too much of it to begin with to the point where they feel the need to make that distinction. The amount of money the tobacco and oil companies have contributed to drive the global economy can outclass just about any other industry. By your 'holier than thou' standards, those industries deserve to close shop because they are unethical. Typical selfish thinking.

                            Im sorry that my discussion with you had to debunk this topic further from its original discussion; that's why I'm taking it to the PMs to prevent further OT-ing from my part, but that was the tipping point. Don't compare 'hardship' with me when you have the luxury of a clean record to see you through, because that is a huge berserk button in my dictionary.
                            [/quote]

                            First of all, moderators are here for a reason, if they come and say this discussion isn't appropriate here, that's fine. Are you a moderator? No? Then stop worrying about their jobs. I'm not afraid to say anything I want to say in public, and if you are, you should just shut up because I don't want your crap in my inbox.

                            Secondly, I have a right to an opinion, and I also have a right to state things that are facts, that I can provide evidence for. As I have. It's my opinion that microsoft is unethical. It is the opinion of many more people as well. It is a fact that microsoft has been condemned for unethical behaviour, many times, and has had to answer for its abuses in courts of law, many times.

                            Thirdly, you seem to have a weird, ultra-libertard view that corporations are allowed to do whatever they want, that there's no such thing as ethics. Well, if you feel like ethics are irrelevant, if you feel that it's ok to oppress people who are weaker, who are unable to defend themselves, then what can I say, you're probably a sociopath or suffering from PTSD or something. "Driving the economy" - that's not even an actual thing. You're buying hook, line and sinker the propaganda and PR these big corporations are shoving down our throats. No, we don't need to let corporations get away with anything they want simply because they bring money to "the economy". What does that even mean? We can do without unethical corporations. We don't need CEO's that get 400x the salary of their employees. We don't need the 1%, because trickle-down doesn't actually work, it's just a clever ruse invented by the superrich to justify their excess. And the sad part is, suckers like you keep parroting their propaganda, because you want to be on the big dog's side. Pathetic, truly pathetic.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Bucic View Post
                              Same here. Logitech products are also overpriced for the build/component quality.
                              Well, I've bought and used many peripherals, including some not-so-durable logitech ones, but I'm currently using a MX Preformance mouse and the illuminated (non-wireless) keyboard for my main machine, and they are both awesome (excellent build, no issue whatsoever, track perfectly on my glass desktop, keyboard is quiet and responsive).

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BW~Merlin View Post
                                Microsoft IMO make really great hardware, I really love their natural series of keyboards and their explorer series of mice are fantastic. I currently use a Logitech mouse and only a couple of months after buying it the soft rubber bits started to peel off. When this mouse dies or I tire of it I will happily go back to a Microsoft mouse.
                                I agree completely that MS makes good input hardware. I've owned 4 MS Natural Elite keyboards (only one of which has died, due to beer spillage), and I've recently switched at work/home to the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000.

                                My Logitech mice have been nice. I had a Mouseman (rubber ball, no scroll wheel) that I only replaced because I wanted optical. I replaced that with a USB + Scroll wheel Logitech whose model number I don't remember. My MX518 was fine when I used it, and then 2.5-3.5 years ago I got a MX Revolution.

                                My ONLY complaint against the MX Revolution is that btnx, a GUI config tool for multi-button mice (including the MX Revolution), is not packaged as part of Ubuntu 12.04/12.10/13.04 anymore.

                                Instructions for building btnx yourself:
                                http://awesomelinux.blogspot.com/201...nd-beyond.html

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