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OUYA: A $99 Android Linux Game Console

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  • #31
    Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
    For starters the maximum frequency of a Tegra 3 quad core is 1.4 GHz with a 520MHz GPU per core. Then consider the 12 core GPU in a basic Tegra 3.

    I wasn't implying the Tegra was better than the xbox 360 at graphics but coming up to range., especially when scoped with Xbox 1. The range is 40-80% in my guess. Maybe I'm wrong as I really haven't done thorough research.

    http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/tegra-3-uk.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra

    Check this out:
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/5762/n...ox-360-by-2014
    With Tegra 3 you are at max 12GFLOPS. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5663/a...ew-apple-ipad/

    I was surprised to see how low performing this chips are(30-20 times slower than xbox 360 gpu), especially taking the age of the 360 into account. But then they are made for low consumption in first place and after all it is the software that counts.

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    • #32
      quick question:

      if I install a normal linux distro (like ubuntu) on an ARM nvidia tegra tablet, will I have full GPU acceleration , since am using the linux kernel or is the acceleration only available on android ?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by madjr View Post
        if I install a normal linux distro (like ubuntu) on an ARM nvidia tegra tablet, will I have full GPU acceleration , since am using the linux kernel or is the acceleration only available on android ?
        The Android kernel is a forked version of the Linux kernel, and as such it accepts featrues and patches that do not go into the Linux kernel and vice versa. The two do communicate but they are not the same. That is the main reason why Android is not actually Linux.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by log0 View Post
          With Tegra 3 you are at max 12GFLOPS. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5663/a...ew-apple-ipad/

          I was surprised to see how low performing this chips are(30-20 times slower than xbox 360 gpu), especially taking the age of the 360 into account. But then they are made for low consumption in first place and after all it is the software that counts.
          12 GFLOPS per GPU core? It all depends on how many GPU cores are engaged in the SOC version ordered by the device maker. Example 12 GPU cores x 12GFLOPS is 144GFLOPS, but as one should know panellising video hardware doesn't give a 100% increase in speed.

          Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe the 12GFLOPS is for the basic 12 GPU core Tegra 3?

          If you check out the link below I was correct in my guess that the Tegra3 is around 40% to 80% the might of the Xbox360;
          http://www.anandtech.com/show/5762/n...ox-360-by-2014

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
            The Android kernel is a forked version of the Linux kernel, and as such it accepts featrues and patches that do not go into the Linux kernel and vice versa. The two do communicate but they are not the same. That is the main reason why Android is not actually Linux.
            Be carefull to not spread FUD.

            First of all, the android kernel (used to be and will be again) hosted on android.kernel.org. It was indeed forked a few years ago, I believe it was because they did development behind doors initially or what not, but most importantly needed specific features (wakelock) not available in the kernel at that time.

            In the beginning the android kernel features lived in the staging area, but after a while it was decided to remove this from the kernel as they failed to agree on how to merge and in its current state it wouldn't happen.

            Having said that, they have been quite busy to slowly re-merge the android changes back into the kernel.

            So while the android linux kernel is not the vanilla kernel, it's a linux kernel as much as the linux-media, the linux-alancox and the linux-concolivas tree's are valid linux kernels. They have forked (for now) but aren't that different and keep pulling the latest linux kernel to keep in sync. But yes, besides wakelock and some other changes, it IS the same kernel, but obviously not 100% vanilla 'linus' kernel.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
              12 GFLOPS per GPU core? It all depends on how many GPU cores are engaged in the SOC version ordered by the device maker. Example 12 GPU cores x 12GFLOPS is 144GFLOPS, but as one should know panellising video hardware doesn't give a 100% increase in speed.

              Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe the 12GFLOPS is for the basic 12 GPU core Tegra 3?

              If you check out the link below I was correct in my guess that the Tegra3 is around 40% to 80% the might of the Xbox360;
              http://www.anandtech.com/show/5762/n...ox-360-by-2014
              12GFLOPS are max for the Tegra 3(Quadcore ARM CortexA9) which has 12 shader units and has been released end 2011. There are no other versions afaik. Please also notice that the chart in the link you have posted is logarithmic and doesn't contain any SOC names/information(-> marketing BS).

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              • #37
                Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                Some times the best way to look at something is to see its reverse argument.

                Example, You have an new Android tablet, or a new released Ubuntu 12.04 tablet. Which one do you buy?
                You buy the one with Android on it, because (1) the second option is imaginary and will never exist, (2) the second one is a kludge of crap that doesn't really work right with a touchscreen and needs to be hacked on for weeks before it begins to function.

                Also, you can run GNU (if from ubuntu or any other ARM distro) on any Android tablet. Yeah, you know why? Its because the LINUX KERNEL is still the LINUX KERNEL.

                I'd buy the real Linux one, and that's Ubuntu in this case. Real Linux could be argued as your own built kernel, as well.
                Guess what? They're BOTH real.

                Lets not forget Android runs a Java layer for all its commercial and public content. I don't call that real GNU/Linux.
                You said the magic word... OF COURSE ITS NOT GNU, NOT EVEN FAKE GNU. ITS ANDROID.

                And you really don't know much about Android, do you? Java is only used for LIGHT stuff, basic UI's, things like that. All the heavy lifting is done by native binaries.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                  The Android kernel is a forked version of the Linux kernel, and as such it accepts featrues and patches that do not go into the Linux kernel and vice versa. The two do communicate but they are not the same. That is the main reason why Android is not actually Linux.
                  The Android kernel is *NOT* forked. It was for a while, but the Android parts have been (or are being) merged back in.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by log0 View Post
                    12GFLOPS are max for the Tegra 3(Quadcore ARM CortexA9) which has 12 shader units and has been released end 2011. There are no other versions afaik. Please also notice that the chart in the link you have posted is logarithmic and doesn't contain any SOC names/information(-> marketing BS).
                    Yeah I noticed there was no y axis name, and the values are expo.

                    If you read the comments, people calculate the values are based on xbox1, with the Mobile charting being iPhone to Tegra3. The direction is mapped on SOC including more GPU cores as time progresses.

                    In the specs there is 12 GPU cores per Tegra3.

                    http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/tegra-3-uk.html

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                    • #40
                      That kickstarter just keeps going, 3.1 million and growing by the minute.

                      I admit I got caught up in the excitement and I ordered one. I don't game much these days but I hope this will be a device my wife and I can have some 2 player fun with.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                        You said the magic word... OF COURSE ITS NOT GNU, NOT EVEN FAKE GNU. ITS ANDROID.

                        And you really don't know much about Android, do you? Java is only used for LIGHT stuff, basic UI's, things like that. All the heavy lifting is done by native binaries.
                        Your argument is faulty, as it's equivalent to comparing engines without a car body. Yeah the engine is a Linux Kernel derivative, but the body/chassis is not Linux. An android device has the body is a coffee colour, java, with Android essence.

                        You have to consider the whole car to call it a model type.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                          Yeah I noticed there was no y axis name, and the values are expo.

                          If you read the comments, people calculate the values are based on xbox1, with the Mobile charting being iPhone to Tegra3. The direction is mapped on SOC including more GPU cores as time progresses.

                          In the specs there is 12 GPU cores per Tegra3.

                          http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/tegra-3-uk.html
                          We have benchmarks today on the tegra3. It's not very impressive, not at all. nvidia may know how to build a GPU if they are given 400W to do it, but at this level...the only saving grace for their arm SOCs has been time to market.

                          Hopefully with the cash influx the ouya guys can either substantially push up release with a tegra3 OR get an SOC in bulk with a better gpu (arm t6xx?) that they can release in early 2013. Staying on their current plan of tegra3 in 2013q2 is kind of underwhelming.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bnolsen View Post
                            We have benchmarks today on the tegra3. It's not very impressive, not at all. nvidia may know how to build a GPU if they are given 400W to do it, but at this level...the only saving grace for their arm SOCs has been time to market.
                            I have yet to see a XBOX360 demo compared to Android running the same demo. The hardware specification comparison for the GPUs on mobile chips are based on single core so it's hard to fathom the real might of these GPUs. Many solutions are already way faster than XBox1, which is impressive.

                            Remember the xbox360 is fairly old now, but still has acceptable graphics.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                              Your argument is faulty, as it's equivalent to comparing engines without a car body. Yeah the engine is a Linux Kernel derivative, but the body/chassis is not Linux. An android device has the body is a coffee colour, java, with Android essence.
                              What are you yapping about? The kernel is is Linux, just like it's Linux in Ubuntu aswell as in a router. The body/chassi is that which lies outside the kernel, be it basic userland, gui toolkits, window systems, sound systems, etc. The kernel is still Linux, and the term Linux ONLY applies to the kernel.

                              Elanthis bullshit of Android not being a Linux device was just him desperately trying not to admit anything successful when it comes to Linux, it just messes with his worldview. Of course it's a Linux device, as a 'Linux device' means something that runs the Linux kernel.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                                The hardware specification comparison for the GPUs on mobile chips are based on single core so it's hard to fathom the real might of these GPUs.
                                Where do you have this idea from? The numbers are available, just use google. In case of Tegra 3 with 12 shader units(cores) they are about 12GFLOPS at 520MHz. To be more exact 1MAD(2FLOPS) per clock and core, thus 2FLOPS * 520MHz * 12Cores = 12.48GFLOPS. This makes 1/20 of xbox 360 performance.

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