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Linux Driver Support Still Leaves A Lot To Desire

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  • #61
    Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
    Ummm...nowadays, drivers are downloaded automatically when the OS starts. And for USB devices, most of the time, the generic USB driver at least makes those devices usable.

    I sometimes think people haven't used a version of Windows since 95 or something...
    Well, I use Windows 7, and yes Windows Update usually does a good job of installign drivers, but not for all hardware. Take for example newer ethernet and/or wifi drivers. You do a clean install, but you cannot install the drivers using Windows Updates because you have no working network connection as the network devices were not recognized. Linux will have ethernet and/or wifi working out of the box most of the time.

    64bit support was a nightmare on the XP64 and Vista64 days for a lot of hardware. Thigs are different now witn Windows 7, but there are still many peripherals that do no have a 64bit driver to this day (printers, scanners mostly), but they do work on 64bit Linux and did early on.

    Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
    Fully Dolby/DTS Bitstreaming/decoding, HDMI In/Out [including video, if connected to GPU], Output over Powered Headphone Amp [Variable Gain], 12 band EQ, full EAX 1-5 support, the standard X-fi enhancements, environmental effects, and the like.

    Again, headsets are simple, soundcards are much harder.
    I've played some movies that have DTS audio, and it did work with the headset. As for the effects, I don't use that under Windows anyways, so could not say. HDMI video and audio has worked with all my previous computers under Linux. Have not tested with the current one.

    If you read my full post (appears you did not), you would see I mentioned some real-world examples of things that did work and other that didn't, including some things that did work better under Linux.

    I'm not saying Linux driver support is perfect, but has been very good according to MY personal experience. I work in tech support for mostly Windows computers, and I can tell you Windows is not all roses when it comes to drivers.
    Last edited by glock24; 06-21-2012, 02:35 PM.

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    • #62
      Creative Sound card driver support in Linux

      Hi,

      I used to do open source development of Creative/EMU Sound cards for Linux.
      I stopped because Creative/EMU started to actively oppose open source Linux driver development.
      So, Linux support for Creative sound cards is not a Linux problem, it is a Creative problem.

      There has also been a fair amount of discussions regarding Linux drivers for Nvidia hardware.
      I think everyone knows what Linux thinks of Nvidia! ;-)
      Nvidia allegidley could be violating the GPL, but no one is going to pursue it in court because the alternative is worse.
      I expect that if nouveau do finally get up to speed and on par with the closed source Nvidia drivers, the GPL violations will then be pursued and the liabilities against Nvidia could be considerable.

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      • #63
        While Linux tends to 'just work' to some extent on most computer hardware, it is a superior experience on well-supported hardware. I usually recommend new users who are concerned about getting stellar performance and support to do some research to find devices that work well with Linux, just as most Mac users do with a Mac. Although you don't have to, it's still a good idea.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Cyborg16 View Post
          Yes, hardware support is one issue. But don't miss software support!

          Windows installers kind-of suck from a packaging perspective, sure. But installing some piece of software designed for Windows is usually a piece of cake. Software designed for linux but not packaged for the local distribution is often a pain to get working! (Audio issues, dependencies, etc.) This is important, and distro-dependent solutions are not enough!
          I agree, in fact that's what annoys me the most. To get the latest software you have to update the whole distribution or compile the application yourself. When using Linux you are constantly updating your system and most of the time something is broken after the update.

          The distributors just don't have enough time between releases for a good QA. If they wait too long, people are not able to use the latest hardware - if they release too often, they have lots of bugs in their release. Rolling releases are not the answer either, because their updates can break your system even more easy - you need a much better QA for a rolling release.

          There has yet to be a distribution which offers long term support AND updates for the most common applications (including the kernel). I would love to see Ubuntu release some "Service Packs" for their LTS releases where the base system is mostly the same and only the kernel and some applications are updated.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Temar View Post
            I agree, in fact that's what annoys me the most. To get the latest software you have to update the whole distribution or compile the application yourself. When using Linux you are constantly updating your system and most of the time something is broken after the update.

            The distributors just don't have enough time between releases for a good QA. If they wait too long, people are not able to use the latest hardware - if they release too often, they have lots of bugs in their release. Rolling releases are not the answer either, because their updates can break your system even more easy - you need a much better QA for a rolling release.

            There has yet to be a distribution which offers long term support AND updates for the most common applications (including the kernel). I would love to see Ubuntu release some "Service Packs" for their LTS releases where the base system is mostly the same and only the kernel and some applications are updated.
            I totally agree. This is the reason I wen from Mandrake to (K)Ubuntu, and then later Ubuntu was just as bad, so I've been using Arch since a couple of years.

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            • #66
              Where credit is due: major Linux problems

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              • #67
                and how a Linux installation can be migrated to another system without needing to blow out the installation
                (a) This is only possible in Linux for experienced users due to the way initrd images generally work. Only the drivers for essential hardware in the current system are put into the initrd in order to keep boot times reasonable, as the initrd has to be read off disk in its entirety (and then kept in RAM in many initrd configurations after bootup) before the system can continue booting, and including all drivers would take up a very considerable amount of space.

                (b) This is 100% possible in Windows going at least as back as far as WinXP. It only "fails" for the exact same reasons it fails in Linux, and simply using the Repair Install option from the Windows CD does all of the necessary init image fixing that Windows requires. That is, not only is it possible in Windows to move images between machines, it's actually _easier_.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                  Problems exist with EVERY complex system. NO EXCEPTIONS.
                  Simple fact is that microshit has MORE and WORSE problems.
                  Did i say they didn't - clue: NO i did not! secondly, that isn't even a response to what i wrote and was responding too.

                  As far as problems, that is all in the eye of the beholder. I could make list, after list, after list - of problems and limitations NOT found in Windows or MacOSX that PLAGUE linux.

                  Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                  If you don't agree with that, then GO BEND OVER FOR STEVE BALMER.
                  A warning though: He uses CHAIRS.
                  Why would i disagree with that, exactly. WTF are you even going on about, really?! you didn't address my points, and now your on some anti-MS steve Balmer quest of idiocy.

                  I suppose you already found out that he uses chairs, you've got a sore ass and splinters, i would assume - by your general attitude.

                  Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                  Gimp does not require 3D acceleration.
                  MS says fuck you to *EVERYONE*.
                  No it's not a requirement, but AFAIK it is a modern feature set and should be utilized. It's great that you seem to think having your computer stuck in the 90's/2000's is awesome. But personally, being as i own hardware that supports it, and being as how other editing suites like adobe make use of OpenCL - why the fuck should i not expect to be able to have a modern system running modern applications using current technology???? (hint: i should expect NOTHING LESS).

                  And by your logic Gnome-Shell doesn't require H/W acceleration, so you could always use Software Rendering instead...

                  is that what you do on your machine?? - if not then shut it. (because you're just being a hypocrit).

                  ..and honestly - who cares is MS says fuck you to everyone? i don't, since i don't use that crap at home, anyway. Mac/Linux only household.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                    Video games = pasty whiteness, stinky, living in mom's basement, no life, virgin.
                    Sorry if that offends you, but it is what it is.
                    They do have addiction potential, yes, but only few titles. And then, almost any good thing in this reality has addiction potential.
                    But in order to get to your "pasty whiteness, stinky, living in mom's basement, no life, virgin" state, the person should do much more than gaming.

                    So, games are not equal to "pasty whiteness, stinky, living in mom's basement, no life, virgin", but they can be part of it, just as any addictive stuff can, that includes such things as work and career.
                    Ever head of "workaholics"? They don't game, but they look same (substitute "mom's" for "boss' ", that is).

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                      (a) This is only possible in Linux for experienced users due to the way initrd images generally work. Only the drivers for essential hardware in the current system are put into the initrd in order to keep boot times reasonable, as the initrd has to be read off disk in its entirety (and then kept in RAM in many initrd configurations after bootup) before the system can continue booting, and including all drivers would take up a very considerable amount of space.
                      This is "thin" initramfs, there is also "fat" initramfs.
                      Most distributions consider there can be problems when new hardware is attached, so they either include "fat" initramfs or regenerate it automatically.

                      Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                      (b) This is 100% possible in Windows going at least as back as far as WinXP. It only "fails" for the exact same reasons it fails in Linux, and simply using the Repair Install option from the Windows CD does all of the necessary init image fixing that Windows requires. That is, not only is it possible in Windows to move images between machines, it's actually _easier_.
                      It is not possible since windows 3.1, and every single my attempt has failed from there, because of HAL, driver integration (infestation) model and such things as NTFS streams.
                      Repair option will just mess up the system. It is clearly stated by microsoft that REINSTALLATION is required when changing hardware.

                      I thought that your microsoft masters have instructed you about it, so stop FUDing.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by birdie View Post
                        Where credit is due: major Linux problems
                        Yes, a list of BullSh!t.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                          Yes, a list of BullSh!t.
                          Whether you like it or not, there are many users aggravated by most of what appears on that list. But I guess you either don't care about other people's problems or you're too enveloped in your own perfect world that you just don't want to see it. There's none so blind as those who will not see...

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                            This is "thin" initramfs, there is also "fat" initramfs.
                            Most distributions consider there can be problems when new hardware is attached, so they either include "fat" initramfs or regenerate it automatically.



                            It is not possible since windows 3.1, and every single my attempt has failed from there, because of HAL, driver integration (infestation) model and such things as NTFS streams.
                            Repair option will just mess up the system. It is clearly stated by microsoft that REINSTALLATION is required when changing hardware.

                            I thought that your microsoft masters have instructed you about it, so stop FUDing.
                            I've done it before, but it requires similar hardware, especially regarding SATA/IDE drivers. For example, if you upgrade from an Intel chipset to an AMD chipset (or vice versa), you are probably screwed. However, if you go Intel to Intel or AMD to AMD, it might actually go quite easily. I went from 880G to Llano with no issues. Can't say exactly how an Intel leap would go, as I haven't ever attempted it. When I went AMD to Intel, it never booted right, no matter what I uninstalled or removed from device manager. Another big one is to remove graphics drivers before changing companies. Not doing so is almost a certainty of failure/issues.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                              It is not possible since windows 3.1, and every single my attempt has failed from there, because of HAL, driver integration (infestation) model and such things as NTFS streams.
                              Repair option will just mess up the system. It is clearly stated by microsoft that REINSTALLATION is required when changing hardware.
                              It is possible to migrate a Windows installation to another computer, but usually it isn't or is troublesome (random crashes, slowdowns, etc.). I've tried several times, with WinXP, Vista and Win7. Sometimes, if you have similar hardware it works. Still, one time a computer's motherboard died, replaced the motherboard with a similar one (same chipset and all, but different brand) and it entered a BSOD loop. Some other time I migrated from totally different hardware platforms, and Windows booted and recognized most hardware and mostly worked. Successful migration of a Windows installation to new/different hardware is not guaranteed, unless you use sysprep. Even sysprep is not bulletproof, as it has f*ed working windows installation requiring a reinstall.

                              With Linux it mostly works, given that your IDE/SATA drivers are in the init ramdisk image.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by glock24 View Post
                                It is possible to migrate a Windows installation to another computer, but usually it isn't or is troublesome (random crashes, slowdowns, etc.). I've tried several times, with WinXP, Vista and Win7. Sometimes, if you have similar hardware it works. Still, one time a computer's motherboard died, replaced the motherboard with a similar one (same chipset and all, but different brand) and it entered a BSOD loop. Some other time I migrated from totally different hardware platforms, and Windows booted and recognized most hardware and mostly worked. Successful migration of a Windows installation to new/different hardware is not guaranteed, unless you use sysprep. Even sysprep is not bulletproof, as it has f*ed working windows installation requiring a reinstall.

                                With Linux it mostly works, given that your IDE/SATA drivers are in the init ramdisk image.
                                How's win7 compared to XP when swapping the actual harddisk? I remember XP crashing when you swap a harddisk. You'd need special tools to adjust certain things in the OS/registry and then some.

                                Granted, with certain distributions, that use UUID's for mountpoints, you need to update those references as well when swapping disks, or update the UUID on the drive to match


                                Lots of stuff going on in this thread. Some right, some just utterly wrong.

                                Linux, is like the 3 legged dog. It's not perfect, it's slowly improving and getting better, but you just have to love it.

                                Like in the real world, many people wouldn't want the 3 legged dog, some will kick it and shove it away. But this little puppy, is the cutest and sweetest of them all. It's also amongst the smartest. It will learn anything you teach it. Sometimes it bites, but you just have to remember, it's a young and growing puppy and just doesn't know everything yet. You don't even have to pay the puppy shelter it was born from, as they will be happy it has a good home to go to. Donations however are as always welcome.

                                Everybody else wants Chihuahuas/poodle. It's a vile little creature. It may look all pretty and perfect, but when your not looking, it'll pee in your shoo's. It's not well behaved and barks at everybody. It wants to be the only dog on the block and will do anything it can to remain that way. You can't teach it any new tricks, it came pre-trained from the kennel. Most really don't like their dog, but that's the only dog that's affordable, the beagles are somewhat better, but way to expensive. Well, this one is infested by incest diseases and won't last more then a few years. And even you can just get another one in a year or two when it has gone, if your unlucky they've discontinued breeding this kind and you'll have to settle with the new one, with its own quircks and annoyances. Just after you sorta where able to deal with this little bastard. Oh, and that free dog from the puppy shelter? there? Bah, who wants an ugly 3 legged mutt.

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