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  • #31
    I found this:

    http://www.opensubscriber.com/messag...g/6818048.html

    in one of the postings it suggests that an IDE cable being too long may affect performance. I'll have to get my hands on a female CF/IDE adapter that will allow me to eliminate that.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822998003

    He's using the same card as I am and getting much higher transfers. I'll have to snatch an intel based system and give this a try..............
    Last edited by halfmanhalfamazing; 09-06-2007, 10:45 AM.

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    • #32
      Probably because most compact flash does support UDMA in True IDE

      I am no expert, but I think the problem you may be encountering is that most compact flash do not support UDMA in fixed disk mode.

      A compact flash has 3 different modes: I/O, Memory, and True IDE. The last mode is the one that makes a Compact Flash appear to be an IDE fixed disk.

      The problem is that the standard states that a CF card must have an True-IDE mode, but it does not state that it will support UDMA in True-IDE. So your extreme card is fast in other modes, but bottlenecked by running in PIO mode when it is simulating a hard disk.

      Unfortunately, vendors like Addronics don't seemed to do a good enough job of specifying which device will work in UDMA Fixed Disk mode. So far, the only card I think will work are Industry Compact Flash that states they support UDMA Fixed Disk mode. One such card would be Transcend Industrial CompactFlash, but I don't think there is a 266x or 300x version. In any case, this is just a guess on why you can't go into DMA mode.

      Comment


      • #33
        What are the hdparm -Tt results?

        Currently for one of my ATA disks it is:

        Code:
        hdparm -tT /dev/sda
        
        /dev/sda:
         Timing cached reads:   938 MB in  2.00 seconds = 468.36 MB/sec
         Timing buffered disk reads:  116 MB in  3.01 seconds =  38.51 MB/sec
        And it is a Seagate 80Gigs drive:

        Code:
         hdparm -i /dev/sda
        
        /dev/sda:
        
         Model=ST380023A                               , FwRev=3.33    , SerialNo=3KB125H9            
         Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs RotSpdTol>.5% }
         RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
         BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=2048kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=?16?
         CurCHS=4047/16/255, CurSects=16511760, LBA=yes, LBAsects=156301488
         IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
         PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
         DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
         UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 udma3 udma4 *udma5 
         AdvancedPM=no WriteCache=enabled
         Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 2:  ATA/ATAPI-1 ATA/ATAPI-2 ATA/ATAPI-3 ATA/ATAPI-4 ATA/ATAPI-5 ATA/ATAPI-6
        For an ATA-100 drive in UDMA5 mode, I've always thought it was pretty slow... Compared to my other 80Gig S-ATA Seagate:
        Code:
        hdparm -i /dev/sdd
        
        /dev/sdd:
        
         Model=ST3808110AS                             , FwRev=3.AAH   , SerialNo=            5LR4A3D2
         Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs RotSpdTol>.5% }
         RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
         BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=?16?
         CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=156301488
         IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
         PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
         DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
         UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 
         AdvancedPM=no WriteCache=enabled
         Drive conforms to: Unspecified:  ATA/ATAPI-1 ATA/ATAPI-2 ATA/ATAPI-3 ATA/ATAPI-4 ATA/ATAPI-5 ATA/ATAPI-6 ATA/ATAPI-7
        
        hdparm -tT /dev/sdd
        
        /dev/sdd:
         Timing cached reads:   986 MB in  2.00 seconds = 492.35 MB/sec
         Timing buffered disk reads:  204 MB in  3.01 seconds =  67.85 MB/sec
        But from what I can make out of these tests you've run, it would seem that CF has a clear advantage when it comes to overall latency.

        Comment


        • #34
          Here is the same command output ran on my old Thinkpad T40:
          Code:
          joshua@laptop:~/work/wrigley$ sudo hdparm -Tt /dev/hda
          
          /dev/hda:
           Timing cached reads:   1644 MB in  2.00 seconds = 822.06 MB/sec
           Timing buffered disk reads:   96 MB in  3.04 seconds =  31.61 MB/sec
          joshua@laptop:~/work/wrigley$ sudo hdparm -i /dev/hda
          
          /dev/hda:
          
           Model=HTS421280H9AT00, FwRev=HA3IA70S, SerialNo=HKA371AKC8BM6M
           Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec Fixed DTR>10Mbs }
           RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=4
           BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=7528kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=off
           CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=156301488
           IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:240,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
           PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
           DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
           UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 
           AdvancedPM=yes: mode=0x80 (128) WriteCache=enabled
           Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 1:  ATA/ATAPI-2 ATA/ATAPI-3 ATA/ATAPI-4 ATA/ATAPI-5 ATA/ATAPI-6 ATA/ATAPI-7
          The drive is nothing special... I believe it's a 4200RPM 60GB drive, which is the default that came with the laptop.

          Comment


          • #35
            It has some nice buffered reads numbers.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by paulsiu View Post
              I am no expert, but I think the problem you may be encountering is that most compact flash do not support UDMA in fixed disk mode.

              A compact flash has 3 different modes: I/O, Memory, and True IDE. The last mode is the one that makes a Compact Flash appear to be an IDE fixed disk.

              The problem is that the standard states that a CF card must have an True-IDE mode, but it does not state that it will support UDMA in True-IDE. So your extreme card is fast in other modes, but bottlenecked by running in PIO mode when it is simulating a hard disk.

              Unfortunately, vendors like Addronics don't seemed to do a good enough job of specifying which device will work in UDMA Fixed Disk mode. So far, the only card I think will work are Industry Compact Flash that states they support UDMA Fixed Disk mode. One such card would be Transcend Industrial CompactFlash, but I don't think there is a 266x or 300x version. In any case, this is just a guess on why you can't go into DMA mode.
              Thank you for your reply, I had read a little bit about the three modes of compact flash drives but you laid it out nicely.

              I'm pretty sure that that's not directly the problem though. I've tried many distros at this point, and most will not recognize the card at all, some see it and lock up. Suse is one of the few that I've used in the past few months that works properly, albeit with slower transfers than I should be getting. I've been testing out the suse 10.3 betas, I'm pretty sure that my issues are all driver related. It wasn't until beta 2 that YAST would load up properly, and only one of the available 5 ide drivers at boot time would work properly.

              As I've posted previously, HDPARM does report this as supporting UDMA mode 3.(I think. it might have been 4)

              As far as the adapter I'm using, there's nothing to it. All it is, is essentially a series of short wires that allow the CF to plug into the IDE cable. There's no bridge chips or anything, meaning that there's a direct connection from my IDE motherboard adapter to the CF card. The adapter doesn't technically 'support' anything any more than a standard IDE cable does. It's just wires.

              Some of the CF adapters out there do have bridge chips, as they connect to serial ATA.

              I think that most of my issues are primarily driver related, and I think that it revolves around those three modes of compact flash. I've been trying to get ahold of an intel based system to do some testing with to see if that makes any difference. One of the links I recently posted, a guy has the same card as me and is getting much higher transfers.

              And of course Michael said that a phoronix review is coming at some point, still waiting for that too.
              Last edited by halfmanhalfamazing; 09-12-2007, 08:50 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                It may be a driver issue, but I was under the impression that most of the distro pretty much use the same set of code.

                In the case of the compact flash, it's just emulating an IDE controller, so one would assume tht the device would look just like a drive to the OS. Have you talk with the vendor to see what they recommend?

                Have you try to do this under a different OS like Windows or BSD?

                Paul

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by paulsiu View Post
                  It may be a driver issue, but I was under the impression that most of the distro pretty much use the same set of code.

                  In the case of the compact flash, it's just emulating an IDE controller, so one would assume tht the device would look just like a drive to the OS. Have you talk with the vendor to see what they recommend?

                  Have you try to do this under a different OS like Windows or BSD?

                  Paul
                  I only own a copy of windows 2000 but with the compact flash card plugged into my ide win2k wouldn't boot. I brought out an old HD and installed w2k, just having it plugged in after the OS is installed freaks it out. Starting off of the CD gives the same result. It did the same thing when I had the extreme 3 card, which does not support UDMA.

                  Yes, I emailed Sandisk for any information they could provide but all i got was crickets.

                  I honestly never even thought of giving BSD a try. I'll do that when I get a chance.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Why don't you use usb? Much faster than your old ide interface and with a good bios no problem to boot.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Kano View Post
                      Why don't you use usb? Much faster than your old ide interface and with a good bios no problem to boot.
                      Now, why would you say that? When I use a USB drive, the speed has always been slower than the internal ide drive and uses more cpu utilization.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I never check CPU use with dual core But I can tell you Kanotix runs good from USB sticks. There are even highspeed sticks out there with 30 mb/s, standard ones are about 10-15 mb/s.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I have tried Puppy Linux off a USB drive. It works well enough on a lot of the newer PC's, but the boot can be problematic.

                          I think the boot time is always a bit slow because initial loading of boot sectors are using usb 1.1 for maximum compatibility.

                          The BIOS is often at fault. Some pc will boot from a fat32, some only fat16. Some will boot only if the drive has a MBR, some will only boot when the drive is formatted like a floppy. Some will boot only on cold start, etc.

                          I also don't like to have an USB sticking out the side of the machine.

                          It would be nice to be able to boot from Compact flash or SD, but only a few laptops (mostly tablets) have that capability.

                          I would not use the flash for swap, it may burn out the card.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Well because of the more or less useless V Ready Boost feature you may even get USB sticks for direct motherboard connection. Why don't you try Kanotix on USB? Up to 2 GB you can run the "normal" live version - if you want with added packages and preloaded with 3d drivers. With 4 GB and more you can do a real hd install - in advanced mode when you change the hd0 grub entry to match the USB device. In both cases it uses full USB 2.0 speed to boot - just your device limits the speed. In case of installing 3d drivers in live mode using nvidia/fglrx cheatcodes these devices really work nice, because of the much lower seek time. The same is true for hd install from USB instead of a cd.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                              YES.

                              http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/08/...compact_flash/
                              http://shopper.cnet.com/flash-memory...-32510515.html

                              I'm eying one for myself to some of the same sorts of cute tricks with more modern machines.

                              Let me know how the SATA version of the CF reader works compared to the IDE version. Perhaps I may make use of this as well in my own system for backup purposes

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                eSata USB combo

                                Well it's been more than a year now. I thought some might like to know
                                about an eSata USB pendrive I stumbled upon a few months back.

                                http://petepr.drivehq.com/tests/review_aolab.html

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