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  • #31
    Originally posted by Panix View Post
    I guess you, like others in this forum, or maybe many Linux users want to defend any company that has any minimal opensource support at all regardless of the quality of the product or support.
    Yeah, fcking minimal all the way!

    http://hplipopensource.com/node/237

    http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/recommended.html

    Minimal my @$$.

    Comment


    • #32
      You don't have to send me those links. My research is actually decent.

      I've been to the HPLIP and Open Printing web sites.

      You're still overlooking my point: THE PRINTERS ARE JUNK AND PRICEY. To get a decent HP printer that is compatible or supported in Linux, you have to spend big money. Or you have to find one used and look up the recommended printers list to make sure. Still, not all the features and functions work regardless of any open source support which is my other point.

      So, sending me links is not proving anything and I already know about them.

      I bought my printer because the printing function was an added feature for what I needed, which was a scanner. I went to the SANE project web page but I couldn't find a supported scanner. In the retail stores or any sources with new scanners, there are NO supported scanners in Linux and I couldn't find any used ones (at the time) so I went with a Photosmart printer (yes, I know, the multi-function types never do any one function very well but what can one do?). Big mistake.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Panix View Post
        You don't have to send me those links. My research is actually decent.

        I've been to the HPLIP and Open Printing web sites.

        You're still overlooking my point: THE PRINTERS ARE JUNK AND PRICEY. To get a decent HP printer that is compatible or supported in Linux, you have to spend big money. Or you have to find one used and look up the recommended printers list to make sure. Still, not all the features and functions work regardless of any open source support which is my other point.

        So, sending me links is not proving anything and I already know about them.

        I bought my printer because the printing function was an added feature for what I needed, which was a scanner. I went to the SANE project web page but I couldn't find a supported scanner. In the retail stores or any sources with new scanners, there are NO supported scanners in Linux and I couldn't find any used ones (at the time) so I went with a Photosmart printer (yes, I know, the multi-function types never do any one function very well but what can one do?). Big mistake.
        Price:
        I was unable to find any decent printing solution with low monthly print volume, very good color printing, cheap or alternative ink and MFC(I needed a scanner 2) for less than 75$. So, if 75$ is too big fish, just consider use local print store if you have one hear - they have good hardware and cost/per/page are very good due to mass print.

        From my 3 day x 12h experience the low-priced models from all brands (especially Lexmark) either use various tricks to get to money later via high price ink/low internal volume or are defective by design. Or combination of both. What droidhacker was refering to.

        The best ink is in HP and Epson, where it not only has cost but also has huge quality. Epson prints better than HP, but HP has waay better driver support and tolerates non-original ink(just confirm its ok to print further and done). Best alternative ink for HP is from Inktech.

        The thing with HP ink is following - if you purchase XL catridges(I mean H564) you pay half the ink price, still 60$ for 4x complete package. Also their ink is labor tested by many to be of very high quality and very high scratch and UV resistance (120 years). No alternative ink cannot match it, maybe 20-30 years at top. So yes, hp ink is by far not cheap, but its very good. Not for text print of course.

        Installation:
        What I had to install for B209a - one distro is Debian (my girl parents) other is Gentoo (mine).
        Turn printer on, it starts guiding you.
        Connect to PC.
        Add cartridges.
        Add paper.
        Help calibrate(put the printed paper to scanner above).

        Pull CUPS
        Pull Xsane(with all deps) or sane. No drivers.
        Pull Hplip
        On gentoo, add cupsd to start on boot. Debian does it by itself.
        Either use KDE/Gnome printing to add printer or go to localhost:blabla port (dont remember, all documented) in your browser and add the detected printer there.
        You can print and scan from all apps from now on.

        Hplip has already scan drivers for all MFC included.

        You need scan drivers FROM sane ONLY, if you use standalone scanners, HP standalone included. I connected canon scanner once this way, it was mustek under the label haha but it worked.

        MFC and quality:
        B209a is multifunction and it does everything well. I had contact with Brother MFC200 - it was opposite. The photoprinting quality is photographic. I had a recipe page printed by professional laser printer and the colorspace, quality are same. The Kodak 5250 on contrary, which I used in standalone mode to print only one this page was CRAP compared. Also Kodak only accepts Kodak paper thats very high price. Hp prints on everything and can manually override.

        I also printed a lot of photography from Sony A500 in free time via Linux/Gimp/Gwenview - its photo quality.

        Printer own cardreader works in linux too btw (USB, SD, miniSD).

        My personal cons for this printer:
        - You need "water resistant" inkjet photo paper. Its not rare, not high price, but you need it if you want your prints be water resistant(like they should). Compared to laser printer, inkjet is NOT water resistant - it depends on paper.
        - HP premium paper is NOT water resistant. 120 years guarantee and yet not water resist. Ignore it.
        - Consumes very very small amount of ink on start for head clean. Impossible to prevent on any inkjet.
        - Printing head positioning mechanism is precise and can be damaged. Im not saying it regarding to your case. However on laser, the laser can stop functioning, the electronic can melt, the drum can wear-off, the motor can malfunction, it can overheat, dispence an lovely stream of cancer-causing toner impossible to cleanup with normal vc. Welcome to reality, where everything breaks.

        And I once had some HP printer(not MFC) 7 or 9 years ago, with cartridges costing 50$ EACH, not refillable easily, with printing head build into each cartridge(so its extra price and gets damaged sooner). I was not using linux back then, but yes, crap. Immense crap. I think I have recycled it away. Would prefer "20-year old Laserjet 4L" to it anyday.

        Comment


        • #34
          get a Samsung CLP 315 or 320.

          Yes, it is a laser printer.

          Colour laser printer.

          You can not print cds.

          But fuck, toner is cheap compared to ink. And dried in ink is not a problem anymore. And the speed. And the dry paper. And the resistance against aging. Seriously... laser is the way to go.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by energyman View Post
            get a Samsung CLP 315 or 320.

            Yes, it is a laser printer.

            Colour laser printer.

            You can not print cds.

            But fuck, toner is cheap compared to ink. And dried in ink is not a problem anymore. And the speed. And the dry paper. And the resistance against aging. Seriously... laser is the way to go.
            Lasers still have a hard time creating "picture like" photos especially on the consumer level. Consumer inkjets do tend to have a more "natural" photo look then consumer level colour lasers. With the price of both being cheap nowdays, if your looking to do photo print outs and plain jane everyday printing you could actually have both for what the price was of one consumer level inkjet or laser printer was just a couple of years ago.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by energyman View Post
              get a Samsung CLP 315 or 320.

              Yes, it is a laser printer.

              Colour laser printer.

              You can not print cds.

              But fuck, toner is cheap compared to ink. And dried in ink is not a problem anymore. And the speed. And the dry paper. And the resistance against aging. Seriously... laser is the way to go.
              Look here:
              http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Color-...owViewpoints=1

              And here:
              http://www.topprodukte.at/index.php?..._how_many_ds=8

              - high energy consumption
              - paper jams (lol)
              - bad bw print
              - lower gfx Q print than ink
              - still requires special paper for best color printing
              - 45$ per cartridge - 150$ full set
              - each cartridge set seem to print yet only ~250 pages
              no scanner, no wireless, refillable(?)

              Do you know the state of linux driver?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                Lasers still have a hard time creating "picture like" photos especially on the consumer level. Consumer inkjets do tend to have a more "natural" photo look then consumer level colour lasers. With the price of both being cheap nowdays, if your looking to do photo print outs and plain jane everyday printing you could actually have both for what the price was of one consumer level inkjet or laser printer was just a couple of years ago.
                if you print on standard paper the picture is better than with an inkjet. Only on special paper inkjets are better. Which makes them even more expensive.

                If you don't print on special photo-paper a laser will be just fine.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                  Look here:
                  http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Color-...owViewpoints=1

                  And here:
                  http://www.topprodukte.at/index.php?..._how_many_ds=8

                  - high energy consumption
                  - paper jams (lol)
                  - bad bw print
                  - lower gfx Q print than ink
                  - still requires special paper for best color printing
                  - 45$ per cartridge - 150$ full set
                  - each cartridge set seem to print yet only ~250 pages
                  no scanner, no wireless, refillable(?)

                  Do you know the state of linux driver?
                  I have a clp 315 and I am not the only one.

                  One toner casette goes for 1000 pages of paper.
                  Printing pictues is not worse than with an inkjet on standard paper.
                  Paper jams? Never heard of. Oh yes - where I work the HP laserjet sometimes jams if you print more than 100 pages in a row. For some reason the inkjets like to just stop working after a load like 5-10 in a row. Hmm.
                  Not half as loud as a standard inkjet
                  and 'high energy consumption' is relative.... how much energy is consumed producing all that shitty inkjets rotting somewhere because the ink dried in and it was cheaper to buy a new printer than to replace the cardridges?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by energyman View Post
                    if you print on standard paper the picture is better than with an inkjet. Only on special paper inkjets are better. Which makes them even more expensive.

                    If you don't print on special photo-paper a laser will be just fine.
                    I'm not saying they are not more expensive. If you want to do colour flyers and such then by all means use a laser however they are no substitute for an inkjet when using it for photo reproduction. Yes the costs are higher but you get what you pay for in the end product.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by energyman View Post
                      how much energy is consumed producing all that shitty inkjets rotting somewhere because the ink dried in and it was cheaper to buy a new printer than to replace the cardridges?
                      Just a simple note, print a test page every couple of weeks on an inkjet and they will last a long time. I still have an Epson Stylus Color 500 and a Epson 900 going strong. Page feed issues are usually because of hardening of the pickup rollers or wear and in the case of hardening some simple rubber rejuvenater does the trick. Roller issues are not limited to inkjets and lasers are just as susceptible. An ounce of prevention goes a long way in keeping printers going for a long time.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by energyman View Post
                        I have a clp 315 and I am not the only one.

                        One toner casette goes for 1000 pages of paper.
                        Printing pictues is not worse than with an inkjet on standard paper.
                        Paper jams? Never heard of. Oh yes - where I work the HP laserjet sometimes jams if you print more than 100 pages in a row. For some reason the inkjets like to just stop working after a load like 5-10 in a row. Hmm.
                        Not half as loud as a standard inkjet
                        and 'high energy consumption' is relative.... how much energy is consumed producing all that shitty inkjets rotting somewhere because the ink dried in and it was cheaper to buy a new printer than to replace the cardridges?
                        I believe you, you are not the only one


                        1000 pages is claimed. Real result would be nice.
                        You never print pictures with inkjet on standart paper. If you do, I think laser will be far better, because it distributes the toner much more precisely. But its is not photo, if you want photo quality, laser cannot match. Fujifilm uses special printers, I have no idea how they work, but they work with reagents and chemicals resulting in inkjet quality result on cheap glossy paper.
                        I have already printed 300 page documentation with b209a, had no jam yet, not joking. Maybe it is blessed or something

                        The last sentence is hard for me to understand. The head never dries out - its cleaned and parked. Unless manually removed and exposed to fresh air for more than 20 minutes. Then there is a solution to easily dissolve the ink. The ink itself of course has best-before, but colors and printing head are separated. There are very good XL empty clone cartridges available, cost 10$ for 10 pack, refillable, without ID chip(you need to place it there from any original cartridge, from trial works well too; marks printer that ink is here). Overall worst situation is way cleaner than with toner. Original XL ink, full pack is 50$, claimed 800 pages(one of best ink available), you dont need original ink or cartridge though if daily quality. I have no idea how much the main head costs, I suggest no more than 30$. Then, there is CISS of course. The MFC itself costs officially 140$, got it for 99$ brand new.

                        Are linux PS drivers for 315 available? Opensource? Binary? Just interested. I heard samsung decided to cut its linux printing support recently(3 or 4 months ago).

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I don't need a laser printer. I already have one.

                          But, you guys should start a comedy team. It's really getting amusing.

                          I borrowed a HP Deskjet F4480 and I had to set it up using CUPS instead of the foomatic GUI which is totally useless and buggy. It crashed and would not detect the printer at all. There's pathetic operation #1.

                          #2, it will not scan. There's no FAQ for this with HP/HPLIP/Linux since HP is another Windoze company. Whoah, where is this great opensource support I heard all about?

                          Basically, any company just has to have the word, 'opensource' beside it on their web page or someplace and then the Linux-based opensource nuts come out of the woodworks with their clubs and flags in hand. Pathetic.

                          Not a care about if the product works or if the support works properly or if it's even substantially supported via opensource. What a joke.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Panix View Post
                            I don't need a laser printer. I already have one.

                            But, you guys should start a comedy team. It's really getting amusing.

                            I borrowed a HP Deskjet F4480 and I had to set it up using CUPS instead of the foomatic GUI which is totally useless and buggy. It crashed and would not detect the printer at all. There's pathetic operation #1.

                            #2, it will not scan. There's no FAQ for this with HP/HPLIP/Linux since HP is another Windoze company. Whoah, where is this great opensource support I heard all about?

                            Basically, any company just has to have the word, 'opensource' beside it on their web page or someplace and then the Linux-based opensource nuts come out of the woodworks with their clubs and flags in hand. Pathetic.

                            Not a care about if the product works or if the support works properly or if it's even substantially supported via opensource. What a joke.
                            I have a feeling Im fighting a windmills here...





                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                              I have a feeling Im fighting a windmills here...
                              So, your response is to post to the forum my comments?

                              Okay, maybe the Russian water is a problem for you or something.

                              HP PRINTERS ARE GARBAGE. Deal with it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Panix View Post
                                So, your response is to post to the forum my comments?

                                Okay, maybe the Russian water is a problem for you or something.

                                HP PRINTERS ARE GARBAGE. Deal with it.
                                Turn off your adblocker. I have posted three pictures for you: a screenshot with installed software for printing, Openoffice Writer with your response, HP utility showing I have printed it out and scanned it back, xSANE preview for your response that was printed on B209 and scanned by it.

                                I also posted two 12Mpix images unscaled so you can stop doubting of the printer I have and the printer with your response printed near it.

                                HP WORKS PERFECTLY and you, Sir, are a liar, troll and pointless person. DEAL WITH IT.

                                PS: If you or anyone else do not believe that HP works - go for it: post me a task to print or scan something and I will do it as a proof.

                                PPS: I have not expected it from you, Panix. This is one of the reasons I took time to post such detailed answers to help with your problem.

                                PPPS: Have fun with your furnace.

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