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Rumblings in the Linux Audio World

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  • #31
    OSSv4 is a piece of shit.

    I tried it a few days ago and it was completly and utterly broken. So much about 'better'. The only good thing was the mixer app. That was cool. The rest was a suckfest.

    With alsa I need nothing to do to get working sound every time. With OSSv4 sound suddenly went completly nuts, everything sounding like machine gun fire in a steelmill. Working one moment, not working, working again, not working until reboot (or loading alsa).

    CRAP. Pure, refined, crap.

    Just don't use idiotic sound deamons like pulseaudio-shit, gstreamer-garbage, esd-manure or artsd-urine and you should be very fine with alsa.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by energyman View Post
      OSSv4 is a piece of shit.
      Less so than ALSA.

      With OSSv4 sound suddenly went completly nuts, everything sounding like machine gun fire in a steelmill. Working one moment, not working, working again, not working until reboot
      This sounds like what ALSA looked like here. OSS4 is what solved problems for me.

      Your post is crap.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
        Less so than ALSA.
        It depends for who. For me, ALSA is perfect.

        Just don't use idiotic sound deamons like pulseaudio-shit, gstreamer-garbage, esd-manure or artsd-urine and you should be very fine with alsa.
        Amen :>

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        • #34
          Originally posted by energyman View Post
          OSSv4 is a piece of shit.
          If, by POS, you mean plays music without skipping or throttling my CPU, and gives me better sound quality than ALSA, then yes, OSS4 is a POS.

          Just don't use idiotic sound deamons like pulseaudio-shit, gstreamer-garbage, esd-manure or artsd-urine..
          For reference, esd and arts are effectively dead. gstreamer and pulseaudio aren't simple mixer daemons. BTW, gstreamer apps work perfectly for me with the OSS4 sink/backend.

          ..and you should be very fine with alsa.
          Even if I ignore the aforementioned problems, the problem with your logic is that not all apps use ALSA. Some developers value cross-platform compatibility and/or dislike the ALSA API.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by DanL View Post
            If, by POS, you mean plays music without skipping or throttling my CPU, and gives me better sound quality than ALSA, then yes, OSS4 is a POS.
            Maybe you have pulse audio enabled? This throttles CPU sometimes even up to 10%.

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            • #36
              Is there a good rationale document anywhere for the ALSA stack in general? I've seen some solid arguments for the in-kernel architecture, but I'm wondering how it's all supposed to fit together and what the point of a new userland API is.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                Less so than ALSA.



                This sounds like what ALSA looked like here. OSS4 is what solved problems for me.

                Your post is crap.
                because I am telling the truth? That your beloved OSSv4 is nothing but a big piece of failure?

                I had no problems like that with alsa EVER. Sound going haywire from one moment to the next? Only happend with oss.

                Anothe fine story with oss.

                I am so glad ALSA exists - it works out of the box. It does not corrupt my sound (cpu load? Nope), it does not clobber the floating point infrastructure of the kernel.

                Seriously - OSSv4 uses kernel space floating point math - it can't get any more braindead.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by DanL View Post
                  If, by POS, you mean plays music without skipping or throttling my CPU, and gives me better sound quality than ALSA, then yes, OSS4 is a POS.


                  For reference, esd and arts are effectively dead. gstreamer and pulseaudio aren't simple mixer daemons. BTW, gstreamer apps work perfectly for me with the OSS4 sink/backend.


                  Even if I ignore the aforementioned problems, the problem with your logic is that not all apps use ALSA. Some developers value cross-platform compatibility and/or dislike the ALSA API.
                  so they can use openal or sdl for handling sound. That way they don't have to deal with either alsa nor oss and are truely platform agnostic - or does OSS exist in Windows?

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                  • #39
                    And ALSA has too much latency (I shoot with the gun and hear the *BAM* later), the sound skips when there's heavy system load, there's no freaking per-application volume level (for heaven's sake, IT'S 2009!) and sound stops when an OSS-only app tries to play something at the same time as something else.

                    Your beloved ALSA is a piece of crap too, but I maintain my position that OSS4 is less crap than ALSA.

                    PS:
                    And about in-kernel FP, so what? Other places in the kernel use MMX/SSE/whatever, and they all share the same register set as the floating point unit. Big deal. And they do have a reason to use it: high quality mixing/resampling without the sound going broken CD with system load (like ALSA).
                    Last edited by RealNC; 06-27-2009, 04:48 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                      Maybe you have pulse audio enabled?
                      The last time I did the ALSA experiment, I used Arch Linux (64-bit) and built ALSA 1.0.18 from source (no pulse) just to make sure it wasn't a Debian/Ubuntu issue. It finally enabled my headphone jack, but it still sucked in the ways I (and RealNC) listed.

                      I have a discrete sound card with a hardware mixer, so I know I'm probably in the minority, but I have no reason to try ALSA again.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                        I don't know if you've noticed, but OSS4 looks like a dying project. The architectures are bogus? Won't fix HDA and X-Fi? This covers about 95% of all new sound chips out there!
                        Just because Hannu won't add quirks for every hardware configuration out there doesn't mean OSS4 is dead. Actually, I believe that was the point he was making in that blog post. What does the 'O' in OSS stand for? Open When we have to resort to this to deal (and deal very poorly) with the HDA Azalia standard (using the word 'standard' very loosely), then vendor lock-in is being achieved.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                          And ALSA has too much latency (I shoot with the gun and hear the *BAM* later), the sound skips when there's heavy system load, there's no freaking per-application volume level (for heaven's sake, IT'S 2009!) and sound stops when an OSS-only app tries to play something at the same time as something else.
                          Sorry dude, that is your kernel config. I can have amarok playing without a skip under 100% load across 4 cores and heavy disk i/o without a hiccup with alsa across a multitude of cards, 8788, AC97's, intelHD's, even a x-fi. As for per application settings most applications now days take care of the signal level before it even gets passed to alsa. As we speak I'm running amarok, kaffiene, flash video all with their own adjustable volume levels while compiling a new kernel. No pulse, no arts, no gstreamer, no esd, just pure alsa.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DanL View Post
                            Just because Hannu won't add quirks for every hardware configuration out there doesn't mean OSS4 is dead. Actually, I believe that was the point he was making in that blog post. What does the 'O' in OSS stand for? Open When we have to resort to this to deal (and deal very poorly) with the HDA Azalia standard (using the word 'standard' very loosely), then vendor lock-in is being achieved.
                            Unfortunately, ignoring HDA *does* make OSS4 effectively dead. It doesn't matter if the HDA standard is a piece of crap, because right now every single laptop and every single motherboard comes with an HDA chip (exceptions are within the error margin).

                            OSS4 ignoring HDA because it's crap is equivalent to the kernel ignoring ACPI because it's crap. Neither can afford to do this, if they wish to remain relevant.

                            Besides, ALSA manages to support pretty much every HDA vendor out there. How does this translate into a "vendor lock-in"?
                            Last edited by BlackStar; 06-27-2009, 06:18 PM.

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                            • #44
                              It seems every time I come back to Phoronix, I fall straight into the trap of reading threads like this, where the respondents are so up in each others' grilles that it's insulting to my intelligence to attempt to digest it. I won't air any names, but people in this thread that should know better are getting needlessly emotional.

                              Look at the comments on TFA: Insane Coder, dawhead, and Hannu even seem to be coming to some tacit agreement on the state of things, and they do so while maintaining a modicum of tact. It's far from the ideal that a "pure technical debate" would have, but I think it's reasonably close to the best of which fallible humans are capable.

                              As for this discussion, I get a sense that some of you feel that because a solution works for yourself, it's fine for everyone. One point that keeps coming up in the article is user choice and that there are no perfect solutions. You know, just saying.

                              From an end-user's standpoint OSS4 is pretty decent; I have a couple sound devices that wouldn't work were it not for it. ALSA is sort of okay, too; I have some things that have worked for a long time because of it. Neither is a silver bullet nor adequate for all use scenarios.

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                              • #45
                                I wish that nvidia produced great sound cards and supported them on Linux the same way that they support their 3D implementation, that is, replace the current utter crap stack with proprietary code that works great.

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